# Atheists with kids. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679 "2013-04-14T14:12:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/41 "2013-04-14T23:51:32Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > One of the reasons why atheists can get so loud about it is **that they have examined religion, all religions, and spiritual belief systems, and thought long and hard and available “evidence” and societal impacts and everything else** , and come up with what they believe. We have? I guess that’s _a_ way someone can end up an atheist, but I’m not sure how representative it is. How many people were like me - raised in a religion but didn’t get anything out of it and stopped practicing it when they were no longer required to? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/42 "2013-04-15T00:07:42Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > People have to know about gods before they can not believe in them. So you’re saying that people believe in things they’ve never heard of? How does that work? > [@Gyrate](#): > > At the moment I’m having a hard enough time figuring out how to handle Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. What about presenting them as a game that people play around the holidays? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/43 "2013-04-15T00:17:36Z")
As far as Santa and the bunny go, we had them in our house. But, when my kids asked my if they were real, I told them the truth, and explained about Santa representing the spirit of giving and all that stuff. They were completely fine with it. I’m not saying it would work that way for every kid, but I think parents worry too much about it. Of course, we no longer celebrate either of those holidays, so it’s ceased to be an issue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/44 "2013-04-15T01:20:37Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It may be a powerful institution, but believing that malarkey is idiotic. We should stop pretending otherwise. Depends on HOW you do it, though. Do you encourage them to call their classmates idiots when they mention they’re religious, for example? Not such a hot idea. (For the record, religious parents shouldn’t teach their kids to call atheists classmates idiots either) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/45 "2013-04-15T01:31:09Z")
When my kids were old enough, we went through Genesis, and I pointed out, until they started pointing out, all the contradictions, scientific untruths and absurdities there. The message was critical thinking. With this background I had no trouble with them going to their friends church or temple activities - they came back saying how absurd they were. The most important thing was to not be embarrassed by our lack of belief. Kids pick up on you feeling ambivalent very well. It has served them well. They are both grown, with six college degrees between them (and one more on the way) and I am proud of their logical thinking skills. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/46 "2013-04-15T01:47:01Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > If a teenager - in today’s world mind you…- openly supports a western religion(or eastern I suppose), you should be proud; it would seem to me they are wise beyond their years and have already aligned themselves with a belief system - which often entails respectable characteristics such as tolerance, patience, discipline.. > Meanwhile, other teenagers are doing the boring angst thing and going around spouting off excerpts and footnotes from “In 90 minutes with Soren Kierkegaard” acting like they’re neo-existentialists and experiencing string theory while tripped out on Ketamine. > > " Because those are the only two options, of course… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/47 "2013-04-15T02:38:43Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Your lack of being a parent doesn’t make your point any less valid. > > It’s curious how leftist mentalities always ‘preach’ (see what I did there, go on admit it you laughed just a little) tolerance yet rarely practice it. > Proof is in the pudding with how many parents here claim to dismiss religion or God(s) as viable or believable, and immediately categorize it as ‘myth;’ rather than having a truly _open minded_ mentality (another over used and under respected phrase). Guess what. It is a myth, just like belief in Zeus or Odin or Rama or a cargo cult. Being open minded does not mean believing that 2+2=5 or a young earth. If you disagree I invite you to start a GD thread where we can examine why you think god belief is reasonable. Now religion is a different matter. It, unfortunately, exists. Sometimes it does good, sometimes it does bad. But attendees at a Harry Potter convention would be deluded if they truly believed in Hogwarts no matter how much they donate to charity. > [@](#): > > What’s more alarming is the open and unashamed admission that these same parents have to somehow limit the dogmatic views of their kids out of fear of what? That they won’t be like you, so jaded and intolerant of others? Or that they’ll actually be happy following a religion? > > If a teenager - in today’s world mind you…- openly supports a western religion(or eastern I suppose), you should be proud; it would seem to me they are wise beyond their years and have already aligned themselves with a belief system - which often entails respectable characteristics such as tolerance, patience, discipline.. I’d have been upset if my kids fell prey to religion, because I would have thought I’d have failed in teaching them to think logically. Happily, they did not fall. And I’m Jewish - tell me again how tolerant Christianity is when uncontrolled by secular forces? Would you be proud if your kids (though I assume you don’t have any) bought into astrology, pyramid power or little green men? > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, other teenagers are doing the boring angst thing and going around spouting off excerpts and footnotes from “In 90 minutes with Soren Kierkegaard” acting like they’re neo-existentialists and experiencing string theory while tripped out on Ketamine. Well, that was incoherent. No clue about what string theory is, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/48 "2013-04-15T02:41:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > At the moment I’m having a hard enough time figuring out how to handle Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. But I plan to go the “some people believe…” route, and to teach her to think and reason and question. If I’ve done my job correctly, even if my daughter turns out religious (and you never know how these things will go) she won’t reject science and reality to be so. My oldest daughter figure out Santa Claus pretty early. My younger one never believed in him; she said her grandfather brought the presents. She was right - he and I moved them from the attic to the basement ready to put out when they were at church listening to Christmas songs. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/49 "2013-04-15T02:52:09Z")
I was a child raised by atheist parents. At 6 or so went to Sunday school with a friend, and then went home and tried to convert my parents to this neat new thing they’d clearly never heard of. Amazingly they didn’t immediately convert, and I reportedly ended up in tears sobbing ‘you just don’t believe’. I have no memory of this however, and generally it was just live and let live, with some friends going to church etc, and some not. I didn’t need ongoing lessons about how religion was silly in order to end up being an atheist/agnostic, the only time it really came up was in regards to my mothers funeral. But I lived in countries that are probably less divided over it than the US, in a more generally secular setting. Otara ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/50 "2013-04-15T04:24:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > This. You cannot ignore religion or simply mock it. Teaching your kids to do either is going to cripple their ability to deal with history, culture and other people. Totally agree. When my kids (my son especially since he’s older) come home talking about god, I explain to them what other people believe and what I believe. Mocking religion to me seems akin to mocking others’ emotions. Clearly both are felt very deeply; making fun of either has absolutely no benefit to anyone other than the person doing the mocking. That said, it irritates me when my son comes home telling me that only bad guys don’t believe in God, like he did a few weeks ago. When I asked him if he thought I was bad, he said, “Of course not!” When I asked if he would feel differently if he thought I didn’t believe in god, he said, “No, way, Mommy.” I let him know that whether people believed in a higher power or not rarely informs whether they’re a good person or not, then let him know what I believed and moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/51 "2013-04-15T04:29:15Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > It’s curious how leftist mentalities always ‘preach’ (see what I did there, go on admit it you laughed just a little) tolerance yet rarely practice it. > Proof is in the pudding with how many parents here claim to dismiss religion or God(s) as viable or believable, and immediately categorize it as ‘myth;’ rather than having a truly _open minded_ mentality (another over used and under respected phrase). > > What’s more alarming is the open and unashamed admission that these same parents have to somehow limit the dogmatic views of their kids out of fear of what? That they won’t be like you, so jaded and intolerant of others? Or that they’ll actually be happy following a religion? > > If a teenager - in today’s world mind you…- openly supports a western religion(or eastern I suppose), you should be proud; it would seem to me they are wise beyond their years and have already aligned themselves with a belief system - which often entails respectable characteristics such as tolerance, patience, discipline.. > Meanwhile, other teenagers are doing the boring angst thing and going around spouting off excerpts and footnotes from “In 90 minutes with Soren Kierkegaard” acting like they’re neo-existentialists and experiencing string theory while tripped out on Ketamine. > > Maybe this thread would have gone better if it was “Agnostics with kids” Are you being ironic? I can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/52 "2013-04-15T04:39:50Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I always just told them what other people think, and then what I think. When they were younger I was more generally respectful of religious stuff, but my kids are older now (10 and 13) and we make occasional jokes. > > As soon as they were old enough to really have an opinion, they were atheists. We live in the south, so a lot of our discussions are about the balance of being true to your beliefs while not causing too much trouble. For example, they more often will say they don’t go to church, rather than they don’t believe in god. And they have been taught that while you are in another’s home you show respect for their rules and beliefs, period. If everyone is praying, you bow your head and remain silent during the prayer, for example. > > There is some overt (almost certainly illegal) religious crap at their public school, and I have told them if they choose to fight it (by refusing to participate in a teacher led prayer, for example) that I would support them 100%. Mostly that isn’t a battle they want to fight, however. They are pretty closeted, but it’s their decision. I think as they get older and peer pressure and the urge to fit in decreases, they’ll be more open about their (non) beliefs. Also, they are wary about telling people because they understand it’s often taken as arrogance by theists, and they don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Almost everyone they know is religious, after all. > > We discuss religion a fair amount, but always in an historical way. My kids know a lot about many different religions, more than most kids their age, I’d wager. My son in particular has a real interest in sociology in general, and different culture’s religions in particular, so we talk about that a lot. I teach morality entirely separate from religion. You’re doing it right. 🙂 No kidding. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/53 "2013-04-15T05:02:42Z")
My kids generally aren’t old enough to ask a lot of religious questions at this point, though it does come up occasionally. My wife was at least religious in name when we met but I think I’ve turned her into a non-believer. We obviously don’t go to church or anything. But honestly when my daughter asks I usually just say when she dies she will go to heaven and such but don’t go into much detail. It seems a bit hypocritical but she is only six and I will tell her my own personal beliefs when she can actually understand the issue on a more intellectual level. Its really just easier to not get into a giant discussion about it. I was raised in a somewhat religious household but by the time I was in 8th grade and started looking closely at the world around me I came to my own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/54 "2013-04-15T05:25:28Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > I’m not sure if I can really agree with that thinking. It seems to be belittling something that is VERY important to a lot of people. I’m agnostic and my daughter hasn’t really been exposed to religion at all outside of knowing her cousins go to church. And even that means nothing to her. However, recently she’s started saying “Oh Jesus…” when faced with something frustrating or annoying. It doesn’t bother me so I haven’t really been trying to make her stop but my parents have been pushing me to make her stop because she might offend someone. I had never really thought about it, and realized that if I allow her to think it’s ok to say such things, despite how it might come across to other people, it’s going to make life a bit rougher on her. She needs to know that respect applies to all aspects of a person, including their religious beliefs. “She needs to know respect applies to all aspects of a person, including their religious beliefs” Perfect. One thing that I see atheists condemm religious people for is the accusation they are not open minded. So, kudos on your reflecting this value, the importance of being open minded and tolerant to others, with your kid, instead of the hateful indoctrination stuff that says “lets talk shit and mock those icky religious people”. This is much more likely to resonate with her as she gets older, whereas the kids of thse who encourage them to mock and hate religious people will likely see it as hypocritical and will be more likely to disdain it ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/55 "2013-04-15T05:51:23Z")
I suspect a lot of these views depend somewhat on how intrusive religion is for the given individual person in question. In my context, its comparably rare, so tolerance is fairly easy in general, even if it can come up in various issues, eg abortion or the like. For people who feel its impacting more directly on thier lives or has in the past, I might not judge mocking quite so harshly. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/56 "2013-04-15T05:56:44Z")
I’m an atheist, and my wife is agnostic. Our 8-year old daughter seems naturally to be a theist of some sort. She knows I don’t believe in God, but just thinks I’m wrong. My attitude is that she’ll make up her own mind. When my wife decided I needed to teach our daughter more about religion, I showed The Kid [The Brick Testament](http://www.thebricktestament.com/home.html), which she finds endlessly entertaining. Our daughter’s considered opinion is that “The Lego God is very bad”, and she’s glad the real God isn’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/57 "2013-04-15T06:00:26Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > “She needs to know respect applies to all aspects of a person, including their religious beliefs” > > Perfect. > > One thing that I see atheists condemm religious people for is the accusation they are not open minded. So, kudos on your reflecting this value, the importance of being open minded and tolerant to others, with your kid, instead of the hateful indoctrination stuff that says “lets talk shit and mock those icky religious people”. This is much more likely to resonate with her as she gets older, whereas the kids of thse who encourage them to mock and hate religious people will likely see it as hypocritical and will be more likely to disdain it Why would you teach a child to respect all aspects of a person? what if that person rapes babies? what if they cover up child rape? what if they are part of an organization that not only engages in child rape but actively promotes the systematic rape of children and the enabling of the rape of children and the protection of child rapists from punishment? I taught my son that belief in the supernatural is fine for tv shows, books, and film, but living your life as though the supernatural is real is a complete waste of the only life you get. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/58 "2013-04-15T06:04:49Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Why would you teach a child to respect all aspects of a person? what if that person rapes babies? what if they cover up child rape? what if they are part of an organization that not only engages in child rape but actively promotes the systematic rape of children and the enabling of the rape of children and the protection of child rapists from punishment? > > I taught my son that belief in the supernatural is fine for tv shows, books, and film, but living your life as though the supernatural is real is a complete waste of the only life you get. “rapes babies?” 😕 God no, nobody would advocate that. Now back to our regularly scheduled program… ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/59 "2013-04-15T07:23:01Z")
I plan on having kids someday, and I hope bringing my opinion in on this isn’t unwelcome. I have dated people who believe in God, and have plenty of friends and family members who believe in religion. I don’t love them any less. If my child winds up believing in things, I won’t try to stop them. I also plan on teaching them on a factual basis about the world’s major religions, their histories, demographics, and what their main message is. During this lesson, I will treat them all equally and in a positive manner. I am not afraid of exposing my children to religion. But if they ask why I am not a member of any religion, I will answer all of their questions truthfully. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679/60 "2013-04-15T07:44:11Z")
I’m raising mine in a world of theories and stories - about God, Santa, the Easter Bunny etc. “Some people think”, “the story says”, “we don’t really know” etc. my oldest is 3, so this works very well at the moment, and I never feel I’m misleading her about things, but she’s not particularly aware of the subtleties, particularly around something like Santa where she gets so much external validation that he’s a real person. But we didn’t pretend he visited by putting out carrots, and all the presents were already under the tree. I think it’s important to get a basic understanding of religion so we talked about the nativity scenes we saw at Christmas, again as part of a story. We will be able to develop this idea more as she gets older, but right now I think it’s a very balanced worldview she’s getting, and pretty similar to the way I was raised (one atheist parent, one religious, allowed to make my own call.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-with-kids/655679.md?page=4)