# Atheists, would this bother you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 21, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632 "2008-02-21T22:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/41 "2008-02-22T03:09:54Z")
Some Christians get really pushy about praying for you. IME, there’s no way to convince them that they’re creeping you out and they need to fuck off–doubly so if they’re holding a knife and you’re half-sedated. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/42 "2008-02-22T03:18:55Z")
If I was laying on a table and someone was standing over me with a knife and praying, I would assume they were about to sacrifice me to Cthulu. As a patient, it would freak me out. If I was a colleague of said doctor there is no way I could work with him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/43 "2008-02-22T03:37:49Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] Given my own reaction, I wonder what an atheist would feel about having a prayer said over them before an operation. Would it rub you the wrong way if you discovered it had been done, or do you see it as mostly harmless? [/QUOTE] If it makes the doctor feel at easy before he begins hacking into my body then I’m all for it. I am an atheist but I’m not an obnoxious atheist. Even if I were awake I wouldn’t piss and moan hearing him pray to God, Allah, or even the Great Cthulhu unless I was a sacrifice. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/44 "2008-02-22T07:30:32Z")
I have no problem with people using religion to make themselves feel more comfortable in difficult situations. When you are about to do something as important as surgery, it is difficult to accept that you are doing it alone. That your patient’s future depends on you and you alone. It is a lot easier to tell yourself that some force is with you so that you can take some pressure away from yourself. It also makes it easier to deal with a bad outcome thinking it is not all your fault. If my doctor or surgeon does this from time to time I wouldn’t mind. If he did it in my presence then I would be annoyed, as I would think it is a complete waste of my time to listen to his nonsense. You want to talk gibberish, do it for yourself buddy, but leave me out of it. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/45 "2008-02-22T08:03:40Z")
I would probably draw the line at grace. “Oh, for these Mercedes payments we are about to receive…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/46 "2008-02-22T08:35:19Z")
Assuming I was aware of it, it would make me nervous. I trust neither the professionalism nor the ethics of the strongly religious. What if he decided to let me die, or skimp on the painkillers to make me go through the operation conscious but paralyzed, in order to punish me for being atheist ? What if he gives me less effective antibiotics, because acknowledging that diseases evolve antibiotic resistance is against his religion ? Yes, I know that it isn’t all that likely he’d do those things; but that’s why I’d be ‘nervous’ and not ‘fleeing in panic’. Well, ‘crawling away in panic’, under the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/47 "2008-02-22T09:21:23Z")
\*If \*I were out by the time the prayer was said, the worst thing that may be said is that the prayer takes up expensive OR-time, and that prayer may make the other attending professionals nervous, thus upsetting _their_ professional balance. Would the surgeon be just as tolerant if one of the attending nurses 's way of letting of steam was cracking dirty jokes or using the occasional swear word? \*If \*I were awake to hear the prayer, it would be clear to me that at the very least, the surgeon isn’t taking _my_ feelings into account. I might be atheist, I might be a buddhist, I might even be the kind of Christian who is uncomfortable with such a prayer. If the doc doesn’t care about my feelings that way, I might be less inclined to beleive him if he describes the kind and amount of discomfort I will feel. It’s really all about manners. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/48 "2008-02-22T10:01:11Z")
Can’t… resist… posting [this comic](http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=197). Oh, and about OP - I’m agnostic and prayer wouldn’t bother me at all. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/49 "2008-02-22T10:46:48Z")
I’d be fine with it if I were out. Whatever gets you through. However, if I were awake I’d have the same reaction by buddy got when he was flying into Pakistan. The pilot came over the intercom and said “We will be landing in Karachi in twenty minutes… _Inshallah_.” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/50 "2008-02-22T11:28:48Z")
I’m a strong atheist - actually, my Quaker wife might describe me as being “obnoxious” about it 🙂 It wouldn’t be a big deal, but as others have said, I think I’d prefer to know that my surgeon was relying less on imaginary deities and more on his/her skills and knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/51 "2008-02-22T12:45:24Z")
If I were still conscious I’d tell the surgeon, “Fuck you, fuck your stupid prayer, and fuck your phony-baloney God. In fact, I dare your God to kill me on the table. Now get slicin’, asshole, I’m not paying you to stand around yankin’ your dick!” One way or another, everybody’d remember that day in the OR. Except possibly me. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/52 "2008-02-22T12:56:45Z")
Wouldn’t bother me at all. But then it doesn’t bother me when people tell me they’re praying for me. I’m an atheist who comes from a family of kind, loving, devout Christians, which may be why the God talk doesn’t bring up particularly negative reactions. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/53 "2008-02-22T14:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] By the way, I spoke directly to God while I was under. He appreciates your faith, and commands you not to bill me. [/QUOTE] _clapping_ > [@Baldwin](#): > > If I were still conscious I’d tell the surgeon, “Fuck you, fuck your stupid prayer, and fuck your phony-baloney God. In fact, I dare your God to kill me on the table. Now get slicin’, asshole, I’m not paying you to stand around yankin’ your dick!” One way or another, everybody’d remember that day in the OR. Except possibly me. Okay, that’s likely to be the funniest thing I’ll see all day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/54 "2008-02-22T14:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] Regardless of whether you “believe there is no god” or “don’t believe in god” the end result, while subtle is the same – you are making a judgement call on the existence or lack thereof of god. [/QUOTE] That both definitions _may_ be judgment calls about gods does not make the differences subtle. There is a big difference between not having a belief that something exists and believing that it doesn’t. One long time Doper made the following comments about atheists: > [@](#): > > One (the athiest) believes that there is no god. Its a belief, just like any other belief. > [@](#): > > However, an athiest would simply state that there IS no god. Period. I had to bring this up because some theists will take it a step further and claim “It takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist”, and I want to stress that lack of belief is all it takes to be an atheist and that is very different than having a belief. Back to your regularly scheduled program. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/55 "2008-02-22T14:22:49Z")
Atheist here. Don’t really care. Whatever gets him/her through the night. I don’t care if there are Christmas trees and lights on City Hall. I don’t care if the Pledge of Allegiance has “under God” in it or “In God We Trust” on my money. I have given it much thought and research and I simply don’t believe. If someone else does I don’t care. It’s called tolerance and I give more than I get I’m afraid but such is the nature of the beast. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/56 "2008-02-22T14:28:51Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] Would it rub you the wrong way if you discovered it had been done, or do you see it as mostly harmless? [/QUOTE] I waver between being atheist and agnostic (and have had periods of semi-belief, as well; some of you may vaguely recall that I had had intentions of becoming Jewish some years ago, but although I completed my conversion classes I never actually converted as I felt that, as much as I admire Judaism, it would be inappropriate to take such a step if I were not whole-hearted about it). Regarding the scenario you describe: it would absolutely rub me the wrong way but I would ultimately see it as mostly harmless. My knee jerk reaction would be extreme annoyance at the doctor’s presumption that it was appropriate to involve me in his rituals. Assuming that he never mentioned his faith directly to me, however, I would eventually calm down and decide that it was a harmless gesture of good will (although I might still question his own motivation in making a show of the whole thing by praying out loud in front of people rather than silently to himself or in the car on the way to work). If he did it while I was still awake I would be in a quandry as my visceral response (wanting to tear the doctor a new one) would be at war with my common sense (not wanting to upset someone who is about to tear ME a new one). ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/57 "2008-02-22T14:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I think it speaks well for a thread when two posters disagree because of the acceptable amount of necrophilic fowl sex. 😉 [/QUOTE] Well, I’m nothing if not open-minded. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/58 "2008-02-22T16:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=madmonk28] If I was a colleague of said doctor there is no way I could work with him/her. [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t have to worry as I doubt you’d be a surgeon (or any healthcare provider) if you’re that thin skinned. In my experience with working with surgeons, they are some pretty case-hardened people who mind their own business unless a patient is at risk. I’m not a Christian, but I’m not an atheist. I can’t explain exactly what I believe, but it isn’t the traditional Bible-based stuff. The usual I’m-so-smart-for-not-believing atheists\* can come in and say what they will, but I’ve witnessed too many strange things through working with patients to believe there is nothing. I don’t feel the need to convince anyone of it as I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. \*I don’t mean ALL atheists. From what I’ve seen around here most atheists are pretty reasonable about their opinions. There are a few that are as irrational as fundies when faced with a believer. They (and some of them are here in this thread) insinuate the person is stupid, incompetent, unable to perform their jobs, inferior, and any other number of foolish assumptions. It gives most tolerant atheists a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/59 "2008-02-22T16:27:53Z")
According to [this study](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529308_print) people who were aware of receiving intercessory prayer actually had more complications those who received prayer and didn’t know about it than those who were told they may or may not receive prayer. To quote: > [@](#): > > Background: Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery. > > Methods: Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality. > > Results: In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups. > > Conclusions: Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a > higher incidence of complications. So, although I’m religious, I’d just as soon not know that my surgeon was praying for me. Although I’ve read other studies that say patients fare better when prayed for. I can be sure that if I was undergoing surgery, family members would be praying anyway. StG ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632/60 "2008-02-22T16:45:53Z")
I like to see great confidence in the people I let slice me open. If the surgeon shook rattles and chicken feathers and did a dance to the blood God beforehand I could be dismayed enough to leave, and I expect a lot of Christians would as well. If he prefers to pray to a single uber-God, well, I’ve gotten used to THAT, but what’s the difference? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atheists-would-this-bother-you/438632.md?page=4)