# athelas: If you're going to use something as a sig... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148 "2004-05-26T06:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/1 "2004-05-26T06:28:52Z")
…at least make sure it fucking makes sense. > [@athelas' sig](#): > > John Kerry Flip-flop number 2: Marriage Penalty > > Kerry said he will fight to keep tax relief for married couples, said Democrats fought to end marriage penalty tax…but, in 1998, kerry voted against eliminating marriage penalty relief. (taken from [here](http://www.gop.com/kerryvskerry/backup.asp#2)) I don’t know if you actually _read_ that before using it, or if you just use a different snippet from the GOP’s anti-Kerry pages every week or something, but it doesn’t say what you think it says. It doesn’t say what the GOP seem to think it says either. By voting _against_ **eliminating** marriage penalty relief, Kerry is, in essence, **supporting marriage penalty relief**. In other words, HE DID EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO, at least according to the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/2 "2004-05-26T06:56:26Z")
Also, **athelas** , your sig is huge. If the sig’s larger than the post, it’s not a Good Thing ™. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/3 "2004-05-26T07:10:06Z")
By the way, you didn’t think too much about your Emerson quote. > [@Athelas](#): > > Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and totomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~Emerson Not only does it have the word “totomorrow” in it, it actually favours speaking strongly about the issues of the day, then speaking just as strongly about what you believe tomorrow, even if this means you are being contradictory. That is, it is actually in support of changing positions, even if this causes contradictions! Are you trying to fuck with our minds here, or are you just stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/4 "2004-05-26T07:23:21Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > Are you trying to fuck with our minds here, or are you just stupid? By consulting your patron goddess Shari Lewis, I believe the answer to your question about the pittee is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/5 "2004-05-26T07:34:08Z")
Emerson was known for understanding the wisdom of changing one’s mind: > [@](#): > > A _foolish_ consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. (italics are mine) **Athelas** apparently doesn’t see the wisdom in it even when he (she?) does it. But maybe things will be different tomorrow. :dubious: **Athelas** , differing opinions are respected here only when they reflect some _thinking_. Almost everyone makes mistakes here, but put some thought into what you are actually saying – especially when you are criticizing the stance of others. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/6 "2004-05-26T19:35:18Z")
About that Emerson quote - I wrote it as a sort of wry aside, a “heh-heh” kind of kicker. It is meant to be read with a sarcastic voice. I actually disagree with much of what Emerson said. As a matter of fact, I mentioned to a friend when I was talking about my sig (yes, I’m that self-centered 😉 ) that most people would misunderstand it and think that I was contradicting myself. But…“to be great is to be misunderstood”, eh? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/7 "2004-05-26T19:41:41Z")
That summary of the vote is badly written, I admit. In fact, that last relief should be dropped. (It can easily be seen that Kerry’s actions either increased taxes or prevented a decrease of taxes, as the link also says that he saved taxpay Look [here for a better description of the vote: “In 1998, Sen. Kerry voted against eliminating the marriage penalty for married taxpayers with combined incomes of less than $50,000 per year, saving [I assume it means that the measure which he rejected would have saved - again bad wording] taxpayers $46 billion over 10 years” [url=http://www.georgewbush.com/kerrymediacenter/read.aspx?id=2398]Here]([http://www.gopteamleader.com/myissues/view\_issue.asp?id=1777](http://www.gopteamleader.com/myissues/view_issue.asp?id=1777)) is an even more damning list of his votes against mariage penalty relief. So…I can understand your confusion and will change my sig accordingly, but the facts themselves are correct. About that Emerson quote - I wrote it as a sort of wry aside, a “heh-heh” kind of kicker. It is meant to be read with a sarcastic voice. I actually disagree with much of what Emerson said. As a matter of fact, I mentioned to a friend when I was talking about my sig (yes, I’m that self-centered 😉 ) that most people would misunderstand it and think that I was contradicting myself. But…“to be great is to be misunderstood”, eh? \>Athelas apparently doesn’t see the wisdom in it even when he (she?) does it It’s a he. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/8 "2004-05-26T19:43:39Z")
Gah! What happened to that link? [Here’s](http://www.gopteamleader.com/myissues/view_issue.asp?id=1777) the better wording; [Here’s](http://www.georgewbush.com/kerrymediacenter/read.aspx?id=2398) the even more damning list o’votes. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/9 "2004-05-26T19:46:34Z")
Regardless of your sig’s content, it’s still too big. The max allowed is 4 lines and even on my giganto screen yours is taking up 6 lines. Just a heads up. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/10 "2004-05-26T19:53:47Z")
Fixed. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/11 "2004-05-26T19:58:57Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > \ But…“to be great is to be misunderstood”, eh? Doesn’t being misunderstood mean you’ve failed to communicate your message, thus demonstrating failure rather than greatness? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/12 "2004-05-26T19:59:16Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > Are you trying to fuck with our minds here, or are you just stupid? Just as an aside, I much prefer it when stupid people try to fuck with my mind. I have a much better chance of spotting it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/13 "2004-05-26T20:28:11Z")
[“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”](http://funwavs.com/movie/sounds/the-princess-bride/?page=2) I had to. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/14 "2004-05-26T20:52:48Z")
The cite given for the anti-Kerry statement at [GOP.com](http://GOP.com) is this: “(S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Kerry Voted Yea)” Where can I find the text of that bill? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/15 "2004-05-26T20:58:23Z")
Pitting a sig!? Why, when I was a kid, we didn’t have sig lines. All we had was a letter, sometimes the number 8. And we were thankful! Kids these days… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/16 "2004-05-26T23:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > But…“to be great is to be misunderstood”, eh? To be pretentious is to be asking for it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/17 "2004-05-26T23:35:01Z")
Let me see if I understand the issue - to change one’s mind is a bad thing, even if it occurs over a span of years, eh? So, for example, when Bush opposed the Commission looking into 9/11 then praised it a short time later, is that a ‘flip flop’? Or when he wasn’t going to let Condi appear on camera under oath, but then agreed? Or when he was only going to allocate a specific amount of time for himself to appear there? Or even more basic, invading Iraq 'cause of the danger SH posed w/his weapons of Mass Destruction- I mean Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction - I mean _desire for_ a program for weapons of Mass Destruction - I mean to ‘free the Iraqi people from tyranny and torture’ -um ‘free some of the Iraqi people from as much torture and tyranny and besides we’ll prosecute some of the torturers’??? ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/18 "2004-05-26T23:38:09Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Let me see if I understand the issue - to change one’s mind is a bad thing, even if it occurs over a span of years, eh? Yes. The only - _only_ - reason a politician would change their position on an issue is to gain an advantage over their opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/19 "2004-05-26T23:48:54Z")
> [@cheddarsnax](#): > > The cite given for the anti-Kerry statement at [GOP.com](http://GOP.com) is this: “(S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Kerry Voted Yea)” > > Where can I find the text of that bill? [http://www.lawpublish.com/tobacco/s1415.html](http://www.lawpublish.com/tobacco/s1415.html) What’s actually being talked about here was an amendment attached to this bill. Described here… [http://countingcalifornia.cdlib.org/crs/ascii/98-522](http://countingcalifornia.cdlib.org/crs/ascii/98-522) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148/20 "2004-05-26T23:51:07Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Why, when I was a kid, we didn’t have sig lines. All we had was a letter, sometimes the number 8. And we were thankful! You had legible characters? You lucky bastard. When I was a lad, we had to make do with smudged handprints, and we never complained. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athelas-if-youre-going-to-use-something-as-a-sig/247148.md?page=2)