# Athiest chaplain **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109 "2013-08-01T20:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/81 "2013-08-05T14:40:57Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Bad idea. Eventually the chaplain will need to get into a [foxhole](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes). > > 😉 _[ahem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16537492&postcount=61)_ ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/82 "2013-08-05T14:44:36Z")
Dammit, I _specifically_ ran a search of this page for the word “foxhole” and it came up empty. It’s enough to shakes one’s faith! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/83 "2013-08-05T15:00:12Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I would not expect them to even attempt that. > > Obviously, providing for everyone when resources are limited is a problem, but this solution sounds like it might have been insulting. When you say ‘other faiths’ are you talking about other Christian denominations (because I could see that working), or other faiths like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism? I wouldn’t imagine a “just come to church instead” invitation working very well at all. According to what I could find on the internet these are the religions recognized by the the U.S. Military. Anglican …………………………… ACC Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion … NRE Baptist ……………. BAPT Christian Science ………… CS Greek Catholic ………… GC Greek Orthodox ……… GO Jewish ………… JEW Latter-Day Saints ……………… LDS Lutheran …………… LUTH Muslim ……………. MUS New Apostolic Church … NAC Other Protestant Denomination OPD Pentecostal ………. PENT Presbyterian ………… PRES Roman Catholic ……… RC Salvation Army ……… SA Unitarian Universalist …… UNI United Church … …UCC I doubt this is all of them, but you see atheists are recognized and it would be plausible to have an atheist chaplain. How the military selects its chaplains is a mystery to me. I doubt that they would put an atheist chaplain on a ship that had very few atheists. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/84 "2013-08-05T15:13:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > According to what I could find on the internet these are the religions recognized by the the U.S. Military. I suspect this is for rather limited purposes–specifically, what to list on your dogtags, since you included abbreviations. I don’t see how it’s relevant to what “faith groups” the military will accept for purposes of meeting the requirements to be a chaplain. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/85 "2013-08-05T15:28:47Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > I suspect this is for rather limited purposes–specifically, what to list on your dogtags, since you included abbreviations. I don’t see how it’s relevant to what “faith groups” the military will accept for purposes of meeting the requirements to be a chaplain. Exactly - its what to list on your dog tags so that the right ‘last rights’ can be adminsistered (or not, I guess they just kick the “NRE” ones a couple of times to make sure they aren’t mostly dead) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/86 "2013-08-05T15:46:50Z")
This is a good place to look for more information. > **[Military chaplain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_chaplain)** > > A military chaplain ministers to military personnel and, in most cases, their families and civilians working for the military. In some cases they will also work with local civilians within a military area of operations. > Although the term chaplain originally had Christian roots, it is generally used today in military organizations to describe all professionals specially trained to serve any spiritual need, regardless of religious affiliation. In addition to offering pastoral care to individual... Note that some countries have Humanist Chaplains which are not religious. It may be that atheists will have to go Humanist Chaplains for solace. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/87 "2013-08-05T16:45:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > This is a good place to look for more information. > > [Military chaplain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_chaplain) > > Note that some countries have Humanist Chaplains which are not religious. It may be that atheists will have to go Humanist Chaplains for solace. You are missing the entire point - its not what an atheist service member can do to get “solace” - its having an atheist be in the role of ‘chaplain’. Go back to your meditations or try to read for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/88 "2013-08-05T17:07:38Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You are missing the entire point - its not what an atheist service member can do to get “solace” - its having an atheist be in the role of ‘chaplain’. > > Go back to your meditations or try to read for comprehension. So you just want an atheist chaplain to be a notice to all others that the atheists are here. We know you exist, we are just trying to establish what value an atheist chaplain could bring to the military. No value, no chaplain. If that is the extent of your desires it will never happen. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/89 "2013-08-05T17:25:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > So you just want an atheist chaplain to be a notice to all others that the atheists are here. We know you exist, we are just trying to establish what value an atheist chaplain could bring to the military. No value, no chaplain. If that is the extent of your desires it will never happen. ‘I’ don’t want anything - the question from the OP is ‘why not’ - my only stance is that an ‘athiest chaplian’ is a non-sequitor - similar to an ‘athiest church’ - but that does not mean that an atheist cannot be just as qualified to fill the _ **role** _ of ‘chaplain’. Atheists by and large may not seek out a chaplian, but also will not turn one away in times of need, and a good chaplain will know how to ‘walk the line’ when appropriate - see other reports of good chaplians that are very good at handling multiple religions. So, an ‘Atheist Chaplain’ has as much or MORE value to the service - as they have no specific quota to fill for their given religion. Let me also add - yes - I think a ‘known’ atheist chaplain can provide a much needed service - in that the members of the military that do not want the counsel of a ‘religious’ chaplain will have a place to go… in the name of religious freedom - freedom FROM religion should also be valued. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/90 "2013-08-05T18:34:27Z")
> [@simster](#): > > ‘I’ don’t want anything - the question from the OP is ‘why not’ - my only stance is that an ‘athiest chaplian’ is a non-sequitor - similar to an ‘athiest church’ - but that does not mean that an atheist cannot be just as qualified to fill the _ **role** _ of ‘chaplain’. > > Atheists by and large may not seek out a chaplian, but also will not turn one away in times of need, and a good chaplain will know how to ‘walk the line’ when appropriate - see other reports of good chaplians that are very good at handling multiple religions. > > So, an ‘Atheist Chaplain’ has as much or MORE value to the service - as they have no specific quota to fill for their given religion. > > Let me also add - yes - I think a ‘known’ atheist chaplain can provide a much needed service - in that the members of the military that do not want the counsel of a ‘religious’ chaplain will have a place to go… in the name of religious freedom - freedom FROM religion should also be valued. I just don’t think the military will buy that argument. They are not a democrary. In the military you follow orders or else, no free thinkers allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/91 "2013-08-05T19:37:03Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I just don’t think the military will buy that argument. They are not a democrary. In the military you follow orders or else, no free thinkers allowed. That doesn’t mean they are obliged to make boneheaded or spiteful decisions about how they treat their people. Chaplains are there to provide a service that ultimately makes their organisation more efficient - so if there’s a genuine need for atheist chaplains, then it would make sense for them to provide them, if it’s possible to do so. The same logic applies to quality of rations, entertainment, etc - if effort and care is required to keep their people functional, then effort it made. For want of a nail, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/92 "2013-08-05T21:44:23Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That doesn’t mean they are obliged to make boneheaded or spiteful decisions about how they treat their people. > > Chaplains are there to provide a service that ultimately makes their organisation more efficient - so if there’s a genuine need for atheist chaplains, then it would make sense for them to provide them, if it’s possible to do so. > > The same logic applies to quality of rations, entertainment, etc - if effort and care is required to keep their people functional, then effort it made. For want of a nail, and all that. You are right, but they will have to see a need for atheist Chaplains. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/93 "2013-08-06T05:22:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Exactly - its what to list on your dog tags so that the right ‘last rights’ can be adminsistered (or not, I guess they just kick the “NRE” ones a couple of times to make sure they aren’t mostly dead) Last _rites_, not rights. Completely different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/94 "2013-08-06T08:03:25Z")
> [@simster](#): > > as they have no specific quota to fill for their given religion. You just pulled that one out of your tush. The military chaplains don’t have any quota to fill for any religion, their own or anyone else’s. Just for fun, you could look at the wiki link another poster provided or you could read the Navy Chaplain Corps site I provided upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/95 "2013-08-06T08:04:56Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > In the military you follow orders or else, no free thinkers allowed. When you post utter bs like this, it makes me wonder (actually, it completely convinces me to the contrary) if you have actually served in the military. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/96 "2013-08-06T09:15:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, military chaplains get to dress like [this](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/09/popov.jpg). > > Military counselors have to dress like [this](http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6181/6101729954_e631b4948d_z.jpg). Ahem, Not to get all nitpicky, but last time I checked: [Military chaplains dress like this.](http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/father.jpg?w=500) [Military counselors dress like this.](http://www.mash4077tv.com/images/misc/arbus1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/97 "2013-08-06T12:42:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Last _rites_, not rights. Completely different thing. Sorry - > [@Monty](#): > > You just pulled that one out of your tush. The military chaplains don’t have any quota to fill for any religion, their own or anyone else’s. Just for fun, you could look at the wiki link another poster provided or you could read the Navy Chaplain Corps site I provided upthread. I was reffering to the age old ‘my faith is better than yours’ type of quota, not specifically to the actions of Military Chaplains - whom even though I am an atheist, I have a good deal of respect for. Sorry I was not clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/98 "2013-08-06T12:48:10Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Sorry - > > I was reffering to the age old ‘my faith is better than yours’ type of quota, not specifically to the actions of Military Chaplains - whom even though I am an atheist, I have a good deal of respect for. > > Sorry I was not clearer. You’re still not making it clear that you’re aware that military chaplains _have no such quota_. They don’t even have that “my faith is better than no faith” quota bit. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/99 "2013-08-06T13:08:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re still not making it clear that you’re aware that military chaplains _have no such quota_. They don’t even have that “my faith is better than no faith” quota bit. Ok - to make it clear - Military Chaplains have no quota. ---
**Author:** ![dettvdir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@dettvdir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dettvdir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109/100 "2013-08-06T14:52:13Z")
Atheist chaplain? \*::::guffaw::::: \* Contradiction of terms. An oxymoron if there ever was one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-chaplain/665109.md?page=6)