# Athiest Dopers would you be mad if your kid found God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361 "2004-06-08T23:33:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Call\_me\_Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Call\_me\_Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Call_me_Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/181 "2004-06-10T08:10:19Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > So why are we trying? That’s what we’re doing right now, and the basis of the discussion of the existence of God. This argument is an exercise in futility. You parry my “What does it hurt?” argument, and I parry your “But it doesn’t make any sense!” argument. There’s nothing left. 🙂 > > I definitely need to go to sleep now. This is waaaaaaay too deep for 4 in the morning. I, for one, just enjoy the debate. Besides, I’m here at 0410, do you think I have anything better to do? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/182 "2004-06-10T10:19:11Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > However, if belief in God is the gateway to Heaven, and Heaven exists as a place where you can only go as a believer (which is the standard thinking), then what harm is done by believing in God? What cost faith? Nothing. You believe lots of things that may or may not be true, you’re surely not going to tell me that every single thing you do, say, or believe is logical, so what’s one more “irrational” belief going to hurt? This, as **Call me Frank** has already mentioned, is _Pascal’s Wager_. However, it has an inherent flaw - Pascal assumed that if God exists, then God must conform to his own cultural definition of God! What if God exists, but is really Allah? Or Buddah? What if God exists but thinks that not believing in It is **better** than believing in a travesty of Itself - thereby allowing atheists in to Its heaven, but denying all those of “false” faiths (which may well be **all** faiths - after all, there are plenty of contradictions between religion, so if at least **some** of them are wrong, why not **all** of them?) This is neither here nor there on the question of whether some form of Supernatural Sentience **does** in facr exist - I think not, you are entitled to a different opinion; and certainly has nothing to do with the OP - but I felt it necessary to point out that Pascal’s Wager has this king-sized hole in it, and just won’t hold water. Dani ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/183 "2004-06-10T10:23:09Z")
> [@Dio](#): > > Am I just dense? Why would the God force allow me to flail around trying to communicate with it and never answer back? Am I being punished? What’s the hurry? 😉 In all seriousness, I asked the same thing for probably more years than you’ve been alive. As my sainted mother used to say, you never know what’s around the corner. Why does He work this way? I can speak only from my own frame of reference, and your mileage may vary, but for me, it was always an intellectual quest — a search with my brain. It was when I shut down my brain for a brief moment, and opened my heart, that He poured Himself into me. I know that I cannot hear with my eyes or see with my ears, and I know that I must communicate with God with my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/184 "2004-06-10T12:07:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Atheist here. > > I’m surprised at the amount of dopers that seem so willing to sit back and not teach their children what they believe (or don’t beleive). > > If one parent is telling the children that there is a God and this is how he wants to be worshipped, then the kids are only getting one side of the story. Especially it your keeping quiet. > > I wasn’t raised atheist, I chose it at an early age. However, many kids are not like me. Most people will believe whatever they are told to believe. (For proof, simply note that most people share the religions of their parents.) > > Simply because you were skeptical and free-thinking enough to come to atheism on your own doesn’t mean that your children will be also. My attitude is that so many cultural and social pressures out there are already trying to beat it into my hypothetical future child’s head that there is a God. Me telling them that there is no such thing, and that it’s just something that people believe just serves to balance out the equation and give the kid a chance to choose for himself what to think. See, I think if you don’t get religion from your parents, you’d have to be totally unsupervised and kidnapped by fanatics to ever buy into it. Or lacking in some sort of internal mechanism that won’t allow you to distinguish fantasy from reality. When my son was accosted by religious folks (who bribed him into church with Happy Meals), he asked me and I told him my opinion – that being that it’s unknowable but I’m not betting on it. I don’t find it necessary to “pound” it into his brain. It’s apparent there’s no god interfering with life on Earth. The schooling is only necessary when you’re trying to convert someone. ---
**Author:** ![TopherX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@TopherX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TopherX)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/185 "2004-06-10T16:11:00Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > As you may or may not be aware, I am a certified, card carrying schizophrenic, and as someone with fairly personal experience in the field, as well as someone who has spent a fair portion of time in mental wards and therapy programs around others with true mental disease, I assure you, and you may or may not take me for my word on this, but religion and mental illness are very far removed. In fact, religion is frequently used as part of the therapy proccess for many mental illnesses, the least of which are not addiction and depression. I agree that religion and mental illness are two separate worlds that may converge for a few people. I too was diagnosed with schizophrenia in my past. I visited a couple mental wards for short periods of time. I experienced delusional thoughts. At times, I believed I was the second coming of Christ. At other times, I thought that “story tale” witches where very real. I even thought that certain aspects of the book “1984” were literally happening. I ran the gamut of feeling very wonderful to scared to death. While the worlds of religion and mental illness combined for me for a time, I do not apply this combination to other people. My friends and family run the gamut of believers and non-believers. I cannot logically make the connection between religious beliefs and mental condition. This would be like saying that followers of one political extreme are mentally ill because their beliefs differ from mine. Part of me believes my current religious beliefs are based on my previous bouts of delusional thought and depression. Religion and gods and Jebus became very real to me at times. These thoughts made my life more exciting. Much of what I had been taught about Christianity became very real and applicable. My mental illness has stabilized for a number of years now. Most, if not all, of my symptoms have disappeared. My skepticism of Christianity and belief in a god has peaked at its current level. I was skeptical of religion before my past delusions. I spent considerable thought blaming a god for the depressions that I suffered for multiple years. I’ve come to the understanding that things happen in my life that cannot be explained. Life won’t always seem fair. I take responsibility for what I can in life and let the rest go. Some things are unknowable. I admit that I don’t understand some people how some people take religion to extremes. I’m not going to sit here and judge them as mentally ill. At the same time, I will not stand for someone witnessing their faith to me and telling me that my life is somehow lack or incomplete because I believe differently than them. I will respect your right to believe as long as you respect my right to not believe. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/186 "2004-06-10T21:03:12Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Nice caveat at the end there. > > Attitudes like this reflect how atheists think, and reflect how sad it is that we’ve lost the ability to be free thinkers. > > As a solo practicioner, I would like to know, **Cloth** , who is conning me? Whose ideology am I parroting? What force is funneling my money? > > For people who scream their status as “critical thinkers,” you certainly do bandy about the words “all religion” and “mentally ill” pretty freely. That is not symbolic of critical thinking - that is symbolic of prejudice, angst, and ignorance. FWIW, I’ve never used the term “mentally ill”. That was someone else. I’m also not an athiest. Now: a solo practitioner of what? If the answer is Christianity/Judaism/Islam/any organized religion, then you fell for a con. And there is no prejudice, angst or ignorance whatsoever behind my statement; it was a statement of fact, pure and simple. I started out in the Episcopal Church and I believed bigtime. But I had questions that others could/would not answer, so I started digging for the answers myself. Mind you, I was looking for answers to support my beliefs. What I found was that it’s all a lie, a giant con game that has been foisted off on people ever since the first caveman figured out that he could blow smoke up the tribe’s collective ass and “interpert” the thunder and lightning. In exchange, they would hunt for him and give him a woman or two. Nice work if you can get it. It took me years to even find the correct question to ask. I’ll save you those years and give you the question. Take at least three religions, widely seperated by time and/or distance. I like to use Christianity, the human sacrifices of the Aztecs and the Greek Pantheon. Throw as many more into the mix as you desire. Now - analyze your mix from an historical perspective, with an open mind. What do they have in common? If I tell you the answer, it probably won’t mean much; I think your answer will have far more personal meaning to you if you dig it up yourself. However, if you are not willing to take the time and are willing to accept the research that I spent 20-plus years of my life doing, I’ll tell you the answer that you will find. Let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/187 "2004-06-10T21:07:23Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Sacrifice a virgin white pygmy goat with a tungsten dirk so that Ktan’nyeer would open your eyes to the fearsome visiage of his truth, heathen! Metacom not do that! OG get severely pissed if do!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/188 "2004-06-10T22:40:49Z")
I made a comment about this on page 3, but no one’s addressed it yet: I stated that I’d rather have a kid that was a “soft,” laid-back atheist, instead of a fire-and-brimstone agitated super-fundy preachy Christian. I’d get along better with the soft, laid-back atheist. (I always have.) Would the atheists on this thread, if forced to chose, prefer to have a laid-back Christian kid (you know, one that was low-key and not preachy or judgmental), or an agitated, in-your-face, preachy, militant atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/189 "2004-06-10T22:46:02Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Would the atheists on this thread, if forced to chose, prefer to have a laid-back Christian kid (you know, one that was low-key and not preachy or judgmental), or an agitated, in-your-face, preachy, militant atheist? I dunno, wiping up the slobber from the mentally retarded theist might get tired after a while… 😉 Pardon me, I have to go figure out how to open up my magic cold box so I may gnaw on a raw squirrel I speared yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/190 "2004-06-10T23:53:45Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > I made a comment about this on page 3, but no one’s addressed it yet: I stated that I’d rather have a kid that was a “soft,” laid-back atheist, instead of a fire-and-brimstone agitated super-fundy preachy Christian. I’d get along better with the soft, laid-back atheist. (I always have.) > > Would the atheists on this thread, if forced to chose, prefer to have a laid-back Christian kid (you know, one that was low-key and not preachy or judgmental), or an agitated, in-your-face, preachy, militant atheist? And those are the only options because? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/191 "2004-06-10T23:55:49Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I dunno, wiping up the slobber from the mentally retarded theist might get tired after a while… 😉 > > Pardon me, I have to go figure out how to open up my magic cold box so I may gnaw on a raw squirrel I speared yesterday. LOL, I am not much for the sig thing, but may I? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/192 "2004-06-10T23:59:44Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > And those are the only options because? Someone seems to be missing the point behind the concept. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/193 "2004-06-11T00:00:58Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > And those are the only options because? I explained some this before. Because there are different kinds of people. People who act a certain way and treat others a certain way. Some people are strident, agitated, preachy, and “in your face.” Others are laid-back, non-judgmental, and not “in-your-face.” So, I’m curious—would a preachy, strident, “in your face” atheist kid be preferable to a laid-back, non-preachy, non-judgmental Christian kid? Simple question. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/194 "2004-06-11T00:03:44Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > And those are the only options because? Irrelevant. He’s asking which of two children you’d prefer, not which from among only two possible children you’d prefer. You might ask how much salience the question itself has, however. I’m an atheist who - I suppose - would rather have a laid-back theist for a child than a militant atheist, if by militant you mean someone filled with hate for anyone who is open to the possibility of their being a God (say, an Ayn Rand). I’m not open to that possibility, but I see no reason we can’t all get along. For the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/195 "2004-06-11T00:07:04Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > LOL, I am not much for the sig thing, but may I? You may even make it into a bumper sticker, provided I get 5% royalties. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/196 "2004-06-11T00:27:37Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > I made a comment about this on page 3, but no one’s addressed it yet: I stated that I’d rather have a kid that was a “soft,” laid-back atheist, instead of a fire-and-brimstone agitated super-fundy preachy Christian. I’d get along better with the soft, laid-back atheist. (I always have.) > > Would the atheists on this thread, if forced to chose, prefer to have a laid-back Christian kid (you know, one that was low-key and not preachy or judgmental), or an agitated, in-your-face, preachy, militant atheist? I’d prefer the laid-back theist of course. I’d be far more disappointed if I raised an asshole than if I raised a Believer. ---
**Author:** ![Call\_me\_Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Call\_me\_Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Call_me_Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/197 "2004-06-11T02:51:20Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Would the atheists on this thread, if forced to chose, prefer to have a laid-back Christian kid (you know, one that was low-key and not preachy or judgmental), or an agitated, in-your-face, preachy, militant atheist? Eh, there would still be the mild disappointment that I’d raised a theist… but like **Diogenes the Cynic** , I don’t know how much I’d like rasing a jackass either. So put me down for “Laid-back theist”… ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/198 "2004-06-11T02:56:14Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’d prefer the laid-back theist of course. I’d be far more disappointed if I raised an asshole than if I raised a Believer. You have a lovely, succinct way of putting it. 😉 Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. That not being an asshole is more important. Another clarification question for y’all: Would you consider a non-asshole, laid-back, non-judgmental theist to still be “mentally ill”? And what if they made the transition to theism gradually, and other parts of their life and their general personality and behavior did not alter in a negative way? Would they still qualify as “mentally ill” in your book? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/199 "2004-06-11T03:15:37Z")
Just to be clear, I never said I thought that theistic belief was a sign of mental illness. My fear would not be that my daughter was crazy but that she was gullible, naive, not thinking critically. I would especially be annoyed if she was led to convert to something out of peer pressure or was fed a load of crap by some self-appointed soul saver. I would most particularly be agitated if my daughter were to adopt beliefs which were demonstrably false (e.g YEC). A faith which was the result of some real experience or honest effort at thinking and exploring would be less bothersome to me. I just don’t want my kid to be a sucker or to surrender her brain to some self-appointed religious authority. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361/200 "2004-06-11T03:31:36Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Because [supernatural] is something that isn’t natural? Do you have another term you’d prefer? I can’t speak for the others, but my own preference is that whenever you mean to use “supernatural”, say “imaginary” instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-dopers-would-you-be-mad-if-your-kid-found-god/249361.md?page=11)