# Athiest is Obscene and Offensive **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489 "2002-03-15T17:07:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/21 "2002-03-16T23:29:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by altor \* > \*\*[Link to St. Petersburg Times article](http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2002/03/15/TampaBay/ATHEIST_tag_wins_repr.shtml) > > According to this, the state has reversed its decision – Miles can keep the plate!🙂 > In future, controversial license plates will be reviewed by a committee before cancellation. \*\* Goody! He can keep the plate, but henceforth the state will have a committee of…who…to decide what’s appropriate? It’s still censorship, but now done covertly. IMHO no plate should be banned. People who want to go around with dirty words on their cars only inform the rest of us what kind of people they are. I don’t like seeing some of the obscene messages on T-shirts either, but I wouldn’t outlaw them. They actually serve as a warning as to the character (or maybe just the immaturity) of the wearer. I’m an agnostic myself, but I wouldn’t want that on a license plate. It could make me a target where “road rage” is now a syndrome instead of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/22 "2002-03-17T01:04:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Personally, between the Elian Gonzalez mess and the Presidential Election Hijack, I’m surprised there are still people who _don’t_ think of Florida as Weird Central. 😉 \*\* Well, maybe when California falls into the Pacific. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/23 "2002-03-17T02:14:21Z")
Wasn’t there a case where a state tried to ban the word “IRISH” because it violated some law against using ethnic terms on plates? Does anyone know how that turned out? ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/24 "2002-03-17T16:13:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > \*\*There’s a real problem with some people trying to shut those with a different view. > > Snopes blasts this on the [bonsai kitten](http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/bonsai.htm) page. \*\* Good article; thanks for the link, Urban Ranger! ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/25 "2002-03-17T20:23:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cazzle \* > \*\*Wonder if anyone in Florida has the plate ILUVGOD? Would like to see the ATHEIST plate owner submit a complaint if it exists. > > Don’t see how they can recall it - religious freedom and all that jazz. Wonder how they’d go with plates like WICCAN or MUSLIM? If they exist, the ATHEIST guy should be entitled to his - and I’m disgusted with the people who complained. Do they have nothing better to do? Wouldn’t they scream “Persecution!” if they were denied the right to express their religious beliefs? And how does a number plate that says ATHEIST hurt them? Atheists do exist. \*\* When the first amendment is mentioned in this thread it is in the context of the _freedom of speech_. The first amendment also **prohibits the government from establishing a state religion**. That is why there cannot be prayers in school and why I would go along with banning any tag with religious context as in the examples above. However there would then be a flood of bible text licenses as is also mentioned in this thread, so in the end I’ll go with the state’s final decision. IMHO the tag is actually the property of the state, just as everyone’s mail box is the property of the Postal Service. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/26 "2002-03-18T00:17:53Z")
kniz wrote: > [@](#): > > When the first amendment is mentioned in this thread it is in the context of the _freedom of speech_. The first amendment also **prohibits the government from establishing a state religion**. That is why there cannot be prayers in school and why I would go along with banning any tag with religious context as in the examples above. However, the first amendment also prohibits the government from **prohibiting the free exercise of religion**. Getting a personalized license plate with a religious message on it may qualify as exercising ones religion. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/27 "2002-03-18T07:18:12Z")
That is why I added that sentence about the tag belonging to the state. Remember starting out the state had said that he could have a bumper sticker, but it couldn’t be on his license tag (state property). ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/28 "2002-03-18T12:57:56Z")
The State of Illinois had no apparent problem with “SOD U ALL”, which I saw on a car the other day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/29 "2002-03-18T13:01:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*IMHO the tag is actually the property of the state, just as everyone’s mail box is the property of the Postal Service. \*\* Your mailbox is not the property of the Postal Service unless you happen to be renting a PO Box at the central office, or you’re one of those really unusual people for whom the Post Office has erected a box for you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/30 "2002-03-18T13:44:44Z")
> [@](#): > > The State of Illinois had no apparent problem with “SOD U ALL”, which I saw on a car the other day. 🙂 Maybe the driver is a landscaper? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/31 "2002-03-18T17:56:32Z")
**Kelly** : Forgive my tendency to argue the law with lawyers, but I believe there is, or at least was, a section in the U.S.C. that in effect defined a mailbox erected for the purpose of receiving mail as the property of the U.S. Government – not as against the box’s putative owner but for that section, but in order to make any third-party act (theft, damage, etc.) on mail delivered to that box a Federal offense. If anyone knows the truth behind this or has a Westlaw account and feels inclined to check it out, I’d welcome knowing whether it’s accurate. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/32 "2002-03-19T01:33:05Z")
Florida actually _has_ those pro-life plates? I know they were proposed here in Pennsylvania a while back but they were thankfully never approved. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/33 "2002-03-19T03:56:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\* > Maybe the driver is a landscaper? \*\* **Johnny** , if you’re ever around Santa Monica, you’ll see a whole bunch of “SOD”-related plates, including “SODDIT,” which belongs to one of our teachers. As regards the PA “pro-life” plates…the legislator who was proposing them (can’t remember his name OTTOMD) claimed the plates wouldn’t be sending a “political message.” Suuuure. ---
**Author:** ![Neil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/839c29/32.png) [@Neil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/34 "2002-03-19T04:05:37Z")
I wish I had a picture of this, but my friend’s housemate’s car has a plate that says “BEE ACH.” Wonder how that slipped through. Wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/35 "2002-03-19T05:47:26Z")
Looking at the title, I thought this thread was going to be about George Carlin. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/36 "2002-03-19T08:08:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Petey \* > It’s interesting that Florida has “Choose Life” license plates. Some would say that should be a bumper sticker instead of a goverment endorsed plate. That Florida sure is an interesting place - much different than OUR planet. I don’t know how many arguments I’ve had with fundamentalists who say they should be able to have public prayers, put the 10 Commandments on the wall, etc. I always ask them how they would feel if they were forced to read atheist stuff in public places. I just love it when the shoe is on the other foot. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/37 "2002-03-19T12:44:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\ ***Kelly** : Forgive my tendency to argue the law with lawyers, but I believe there is, or at least was, a section in the U.S.C. that in effect defined a mailbox erected for the purpose of receiving mail as the property of the U.S. Government – not as against the box’s putative owner but for that section, but in order to make any third-party act (theft, damage, etc.) on mail delivered to that box a Federal offense. If anyone knows the truth behind this or has a Westlaw account and feels inclined to check it out, I’d welcome knowing whether it’s accurate. \*\* The statute in question makes no such declaration. As far as I can tell, the position that “mailboxes are federal property” comes from a [statement](http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/tipvandl.htm) made by the Postal Inspection Service that “mailboxes are _considered_ federal property”. This statement appears [unsupported by the law](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1705.html) and is a misleading statement. What the USPIS is saying is that **it** considers them federal property, not that the law does. Congress is free to create (and in fact has created) offenses related to interfering with the delivery of the mails without claiming any actual property interest in mail receptacles. According to the historical notes on Cornell’s site, this statute has been around in essentially the same form since 1909. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/38 "2002-03-19T18:31:25Z")
Thanks, **Kelly** , for the clarification – another urban legend goes down to dust! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489/39 "2002-03-19T19:47:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElwoodCuse \* > Florida actually _has_ those pro-life plates? [Yep.](http://www.choose-life.org/) Their purpose is supposed to be raising awareness of alternatives to abortion, i.e. adoption, but pretty much everyone here knows the real deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiest-is-obscene-and-offensive/98489.md?page=1)