# Athiests, a question about the concept of Eternal Paradise **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191 "2010-03-12T01:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/41 "2010-03-12T17:29:13Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Haven’t you noticed by now that whenever someone poses a hypothetical question, Diogenes makes it his job to declare “THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE!!!” even though everybody already knows it’s impossible, and is speculating on their reaction to something that we’re all aware cannot be? I don’t mean to threadshit, I’m just trying to say that it’s hard for me, prsonally, to participate in those kinds of threads because I have a cognitive inability to entertain impossible scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/42 "2010-03-12T17:31:01Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > I’d prolly go with the Steve Martin perspective.. > “What if you died and went to…heaven? > > If there were clouds and angels with wings? > > Wouldn’t you feel stupid? > > In college they said this was all bullshit” “How many times did I take the Lord’s name in vain? A million and six? Jesus Chr…” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/43 "2010-03-12T17:34:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t mean to threadshit, I’m just trying to say that it’s hard for me, prsonally, to participate in those kinds of threads because I have a cognitive inability to entertain impossible scenarios. I think that, if you find it impossible to participate in certain threads, you should actually _refrain_ from doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/44 "2010-03-12T17:40:21Z")
I went for I don’t know. Being a _glass half empty_ kind of chap I wouldn’t trust the Universe not to screw it up in some way. And eternity is such a long time, I’d get through an awful lot of Ecstacy, if drugs are in short suppy in paradise I’d be well pissed off… I suspect this would be me: “The first ten million years were the worst, the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million I didn’t enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.” ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/45 "2010-03-12T17:43:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that, if you find it impossible to participate in certain threads, you should actually _refrain_ from doing so. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/46 "2010-03-12T17:51:52Z")
Like I say; You can give some people a pony, and they’ll complain that it craps on the carpet. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/47 "2010-03-12T17:52:25Z")
Well it DOES. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/48 "2010-03-12T17:53:08Z")
For the purposes of this poll, I will define Paradise as my own version of Paradise. I don’t care to define what that is here but I would be overjoyed. It would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/49 "2010-03-12T18:03:38Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > For the purposes of this poll, I will define Paradise as my own version of Paradise. I don’t care to define what that is here but I would be overjoyed. It would be awesome. **holds shaky gun to your head** _Define_ it. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/50 "2010-03-12T18:06:24Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > **holds shaky gun to your head** > > _Define_ it. Ha! And he’d better be quick about it, too. I’m waiting so that I can parse the shit out of his definition, and tell him why it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/51 "2010-03-12T18:20:17Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Eternity. think about that a sec. _Forever_. > > Not 100 years, not 200 years, not 5000 years. _For\_ev\_er_. > > I have a hard time with those occasional Sunday afternoons where I don’t have anything planned. This seems like a good time to reference my thread on [Elrond or Elros](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=537846). ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/52 "2010-03-12T21:09:34Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > This sounds like the clever ruse that religidiots use to try to get atheists to say something nice about Jesus. I don’t care what you think about Jesus. > [@](#): > > ``` > "Just imagine, hypothetically, that Jesus died for your sins... wouldn't you say that is an incredible selfless gift of love?" Uh, yeah, your fairytale sounds nice, but my quibble isn't how nice it sounds, it's the fact that it's a load of crap that you use to try to control other people's minds and meddle in their lives. > > ``` This thread has nothing to do with Jesus what-so-ever > [@](#): > > Question for the OP - If I told you that Jesus was a child-raping crack-smoking drunk-driving Enron executive who didn’t actually die on the cross, just hypothetically speaking here, wouldn’t that mean He was pretty much a fraud the most awful person imaginable? I mean, just hypothetical-like, you have no choice but to admit that Jesus was a fraud and and awful person. Hypothetically. If what you were saying was true then yes, I would admit that Jesus was a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/53 "2010-03-12T21:10:46Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > And my answer to the OP is yes, of course I’d love eternity in paradise, if it’s MY paradise with a neverending supply of hot naked women, beer, buffalo wings, and overstuffed duffel bags full of magic cocaine that doesn’t make you feel crashy the next day. But I don’t think that paradise is really what you had in mind, is it? People can define paradise however they want. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/54 "2010-03-12T21:25:59Z")
As long as this is _MY_ “paradise” we’re talking about here, chock full of sexy female vampire supermodels, my own personal ski slope, lakes stocked with gamefish, supercars that never run out of fuel, my own arsenal of fighter jets, a shooting range, and an infinite number of guns to target shoot with that never run out of ammo, a bass boat capable of breaking lightspeed, a TARDIS, you know, all the cool toys, and other stuff I can’t think up right now, I’d be guardedly optimistic, but still thinking there’s a catch somewhere If it’s mindlessly parroting praise for “The Invisible SkyBully”, sorry, not interested, I’ll take oblivion/non-existence for 100, Alex… ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/55 "2010-03-13T00:13:42Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Oh c’mon, I’d definitely be overjoyed if I got to go to a legit version of paradise. Especially if it’s _ **my** _ paradise. I can think of many, many joyous things. I can think of many joyous things too, but strangely they stop being so joyous when they are available infinitely and at no cost. To have every possible desire fulfilled is to make desire meaningless and unsatisfying. So, I suppose my idea of “paradise” is an existence in which I am _not_ in control, and in which I am _not_ able to immediately satisfy my desires; in which, in short, I have the ability to strive and to give my own meaning to my striving. It is a place where I am constrained by temporal nature to make the best of what I have, where it is possible to spend my life in labor and in the end to look back on life and be satisfied. To have aims, to experience dangers, to suffer privation and worry and the possibility of utter failure; these things are necessary for existence to be worthwhile. Otherwise what possible point could there be? Give me _that_ after death, and I will be satisfied with my lot. But I am happy to say that I already have it. To my mortal mind, the spiritual successor through reincarnation is indistinguishable from the birth of another rational entity – any entity, human or otherwise. A child born ten thousand years from now is as much _me_ as anybody ever could be, the existence or non-existence of an immortal soul notwithstanding. If something will exist after I am gone, that is enough. Still, I wish that I could see it, and for that reason death is sad. I would be happy to have more time here; a thousand years, ten thousand, a million; I’m not sure when I’d ever get tired of it. I would explore every corner of the earth, plumb the depths of every human experience, read every book ever written. Probably I’d even dabble in politics for a while. But if through all that I couldn’t feel the pangs of hunger, the ache of unfulfilled longing, the stings of a wounded body, and with these the commensurate pleasure of satisfying all of them; if I couldn’t bleed or weep or laugh, well, I can’t help but feel that the entire game would be a waste of my time. In a painless world I think I would turn to suicide very quickly – or else descend into unthinking torpor; and that would be worse. Perfect happiness, an end to need, my every want fulfilled – this is a wonderful thing to dream about, a terrible thing to have. The more I think about it, the more I realize that the greatest Hell of all is to be God. So I have to smile and shake my head when the faithful tell me about the wonders of eternal bliss that could be mine if only I would (check all that apply): see the light, give my soul to Jesus, praise Allah and his prophet, pray for forgiveness, stop having fun, start asking questions, stop asking questions, count beads and sing nice songs, wear magic underpants, fellate the pope, wear a potato. Then and only then, apparently, can I join the righteous dead. It seems to me that they haven’t thought it through. They paint pictures of heavenly comfort because they desire release from care; but they don’t seem to realize that the release from care is, ultimately, the release from _caring_. Their simple vision has no room for negativity: in a breathtaking display of cognitive dissonance, they blithely define paradise as the absence of all ills, and then imagine that they, unchanged, could appreciate forever a state whose only reason for being appreciable has been banished. Those that do think about the consequences seldom offer a better answer. Usually they say that, arriving in the Kingdom of Heaven, we will find the presence of the almighty eternally and boundlessly satisfying, or else that in the beatification of the light of God all worry and want are obliterated: but what else could this be but death, the annihilation of the self? I, as a thinking, feeling individual, capable of desiring and therefore of suffering, would be destroyed, replaced by an automaton that makes happy noises for the amusement of angels. Who knows? Maybe that’s the only thing that keeps them from hanging themselves with their halos. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/56 "2010-03-13T00:25:43Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > Overjoyed of course. We’re comparing paradise with DEATH here, how bad could it possibly be?! Well, if you don’t believe in an afterlife, then death is the definition of ‘not bad’. 😛 Not GOOD, either, but …yah. Death isn’t scary at all. DYING, I could do without. I chose the ‘Don’t know what I’d think’ option, because no matter what anyone told me it would be like, I couldn’t guarantee I’d believe them. :dubious: For all of my adult life, and most of my childhood, I figured that if I ended up at the pearly gates, I’d ask if they needed help back down on earth. People piss me off, make me cry, make me want to blow up the place and start over, but screw it. I’m hooked, what can I say? I confess that the idea of life itself being worthless, just a run-up to the REAL party, well…it has always pissed me off. And… oooh baby, you know what that’s worth… /flees ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/57 "2010-03-13T01:13:00Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > People can define paradise however they want. Really? So you were seriously wondering if atheists were people who for some reason wouldn’t enjoy in a world of their own choosing for eternity? This isn’t really a good question for understanding how we think; in fact it’s really not much good for anything? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/58 "2010-03-13T01:18:08Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Really? So you were seriously wondering if atheists were people who for some reason wouldn’t enjoy in a world of their own choosing for eternity? This isn’t really a good question for understanding how we think; in fact it’s really not much good for anything? In my other thread, and in this thread, there are people who said they wouldn’t want an eternity of anything, including paradise. This is the reason I started this thread. Also, if you look at the numbers, as of this posting: 2 People would have misgivings 7 People wouldn’t think it was all that great 1 Person wouldn’t like it and 4 People would absolutely hate it ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/59 "2010-03-13T01:29:51Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > In my other thread, and in this thread, there are people who said they wouldn’t want an eternity of anything, including paradise. This is the reason I started this thread. Also, if you look at the numbers, as of this posting: > 2 People would have misgivings > 7 People wouldn’t think it was all that great > 1 Person wouldn’t like it > and > 4 People would absolutely hate it I’m not mocking the fact that some people could think of reasons not to love an eternal paradise; I just think it’s funny that you’re only asking atheists. Do you take it as a foregone conclusion that all Christians would enjoy an eternity of paradise? That’s a much more illuminating question to me. Do most people follow Christianity just for the heavenly reward? Do they consider it a reward because they’re told to consider it a reward? Are there people who follow Christianity because they believe it’s the moral and ethical way to live their lives, but feel ambivalent about spending the next 10 trillion years singing praises to Jesus? Do they wonder if there will be coffee breaks? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191/60 "2010-03-13T01:51:32Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > I’m not mocking the fact that some people could think of reasons not to love an eternal paradise; I just think it’s funny that you’re only asking atheists. Do you take it as a foregone conclusion that all Christians would enjoy an eternity of paradise? That’s a much more illuminating question to me. Do most people follow Christianity just for the heavenly reward? Do they consider it a reward because they’re told to consider it a reward? Are there people who follow Christianity because they believe it’s the moral and ethical way to live their lives, but feel ambivalent about spending the next 10 trillion years singing praises to Jesus? Do they wonder if there will be coffee breaks? You’re correct in that I’m taking it for granted that Christians look forward to eternal paradise, and of course with all the millions of Christians in the world, there are bound to be some who do not. Your question is an interesting one, but it’s a different discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-a-question-about-the-concept-of-eternal-paradise/532191.md?page=4)