# Athiests are not citizens, WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134 "2002-12-20T23:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/21 "2002-12-21T01:14:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > \*\*Is God an atheist? \*\* Of course. If he believed in himself, he wouldn’t need anyone else to. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/22 "2002-12-21T01:31:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Robert Sherman ain’t exactly the [brightest](http://www.beloitdailynews.com/698/1ill5.htm) bulb on the tree… \*\* Ok so this guy is automatically a dumbass because he fucked up and hit his kid? I mean, Stephen Hawking could shoot the Queen of England and it wouldn’t negate any of his work. I’ve never even heard of Robert Sherman but I just don’t like these kind of arguments, they remind me of politicians. “Soandso is unfit to hold office because he smoked a joint thirty years ago!” Yea…sure… ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/23 "2002-12-21T01:36:14Z")
Ah, let me add that even though the kid was 16, it’s still fucked up to hit your kids (or anyone else for that matter) I just don’t see the relevance of him being arrested to George HW Bush saying Atheists aren’t citizens. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/24 "2002-12-21T02:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*Ah, let me add that even though the kid was 16, it’s still fucked up to hit your kids (or anyone else for that matter) I just don’t see the relevance of him being arrested to George HW Bush saying Atheists aren’t citizens. \*\* I’m questioning the credibility of Sherman as a legitimate “reporter”…and whether Bush Sr said what he is purported by Sherman to have said. Sherman is a bit of a nutjob…fairly well known in the Chicago area. The beating his kid incident (“to knock the fear of God in him” was his reasoning…giggle) is just one episode of his…umm…eccentricities. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/25 "2002-12-21T02:40:14Z")
The quote is reprehensible no matter when it was said. GHWB should be ashamed of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/26 "2002-12-21T02:55:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Sherman is a bit of a nutjob…fairly well known in the Chicago area. \*\* Fair 'nuff. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/27 "2002-12-21T02:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*The quote is reprehensible no matter when it was said. GHWB should be ashamed of himself. \*\* Assuming of course, that he said it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/28 "2002-12-21T08:09:12Z")
No, after all he had a hand in raising Dubya, Jeb and Neil. He _should_ be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/29 "2002-12-21T08:48:45Z")
Naww… we think any Bush should be ashamed of himself _on principle._ ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/30 "2002-12-21T08:50:09Z")
Heh. Simulpost. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/31 "2002-12-21T11:25:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*I mean, Stephen Hawking could shoot the Queen of England and it wouldn’t negate any of his work. > \*\* Now _that_ would be a story! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/32 "2002-12-21T11:57:17Z")
I’m an atheist but I’m feeling lazy and I have a long list of things to get upset about. I’ll put it on the bottom of the list and I’ll get upset when I get around to it. I figure it may be in about 15 yeras or so. Also, I didn’t hear about the Queen of England being shot but it doesn’t surprise me as that family has always been in so much trouble. I bet she was up to no good when it happened. I wish they’d straighten their act. Still, I hope she’s OK and gets well soon. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/33 "2002-12-21T12:23:57Z")
Robert Sherman is a hand-stabber — a reporter for the [American Atheists](http://www.atheists.org/). I wouldn’t sully my atheist friends at StraightDope by lumping them in with the atheist equivalent of Jack Chick. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/34 "2002-12-21T13:28:23Z")
‘Hand-stabber’? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/35 "2002-12-21T13:57:16Z")
It is a pejorative term in referring to extremist atheists. It originated with a story that Madalyn Murray O’Hair, founder of American Atheists, once stabbed a man in the hand with her pen when she sneezed, and he responded, “God bless you.” ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/36 "2002-12-21T16:16:54Z")
That sounds suspiciously like an urban legend, **Lib**. Do you have any reference souce documenting the incident? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/37 "2002-12-21T19:41:16Z")
I agree with you, Homebrew. It probably IS an urban legend. That’s why I referred to it as “a story”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/38 "2002-12-21T21:18:35Z")
So is the story that Bush Sr. said that atheists weren’t citizens. None of the other, mainstream reporters who were present remember anything of the sort. Sherman made it up. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/39 "2002-12-21T23:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\*Good, since I’m no longer a citizen, I can stop paying taxes, right? \*\* No. Even non-citizens have to pay taxes, if they work and reside in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134/40 "2002-12-22T13:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > The quote is reprehensible no matter when it was said. GHWB should be ashamed of himself. No, the reporter should be ashamed of himself for making up quotes out of the clear blue sky. The OPer should be ashamed of himself for repeating a highly suspect story and THEN attributing it to the wrong person. And you should be ashamed of yourself for believing something is true just because it’s written. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-are-not-citizens-wtf/144134.md?page=3)