# "Athiests Need to Just Shut Up"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 7, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204 "2007-02-07T14:30:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/201 "2007-02-09T18:21:45Z")
Schlussel keeps saying on her blog that atheists turn into Muslim extremists. [When Atheists a/k/a Future Muslims attack](http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/02/when_atheists_a.html)
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t mind receiving the atheist hate mail, since I know that in a few years, many of these same people will either be Muslim extremists (redundant) or helping the country fall further in its fight against the creep of Islamic imposition on America . . . or both.
Schlussel is Ann Coulter without the wit.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/202 "2007-02-09T18:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
Why would you bother bringing up such an irrelevant point?
[/QUOTE]
Read the boards much?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/203 "2007-02-09T18:35:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
[Stephen A. Smith (aka, "Screamin’ A. Smith)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_A._Smith) (sports writer, ESPN host) not sure why he was on the panel. I guess the thinking was, “Are atheists discriminated against? Let’s ask two blacks and a Jew.”
[/QUOTE]
They were the panel for the entire episode, not just that one issue. Since they discussed Joseph Biden’s “articulate” remark and Dungy and Lovie Smith being the first black head coaches in the Super Bowl, it did make sense to bring the Screamer.
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### Author:  [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/204 "2007-02-09T18:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Schlussel keeps saying on her blog that atheists turn into Muslim extremists. [When Atheists a/k/a Future Muslims attack](http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/02/when_atheists_a.html)
Schlussel is Ann Coulter without the wit.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, she’s a fucking moron. That doesn’t even make any sense. If an atheist doesn’t believe in ANY God, how are they to follow the Muslim _religion_? How does one function with such little gray matter?
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/205 "2007-02-09T18:52:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Schlussel keeps saying on her blog that atheists turn into Muslim extremists. [When Atheists a/k/a Future Muslims attack](http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/02/when_atheists_a.html)
[/QUOTE]
I tried reading that link, honest I did. I got about a paragraph into it, then had to stop. The stupid, how it burns!
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### Author:  [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/206 "2007-02-09T19:06:19Z")
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
Wow, she’s a fucking moron. That doesn’t even make any sense. If an atheist doesn’t believe in ANY God, how are they to follow the Muslim _religion_? How does one function with such little gray matter?
[/QUOTE]
At least she gives her hatred equal opportunity; she says “Muslim extremists” is redundant. :rolleyes: Gee, I feel so sad that I’m an atheist and not full of Christian love like her.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/207 "2007-02-09T19:31:59Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
At least she gives her hatred equal opportunity; she says “Muslim extremists” is redundant. :rolleyes: Gee, I feel so sad that I’m an atheist and not full of Christian love like her.
[/QUOTE]
One might extrapolate that not only is she a hateful bigotted moron, but a racist as well. She’s batting 1000.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/208 "2007-02-09T19:37:42Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
At least she gives her hatred equal opportunity; she says “Muslim extremists” is redundant. :rolleyes: Gee, I feel so sad that I’m an atheist and not full of Christian love like her.
[/QUOTE]
From my reading on that page (and yes, I _would_ like those fifteen minutes of my life back, if you please), I gather that Ms. Schlussel is Jewish.
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### Author:  [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/209 "2007-02-09T19:58:29Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
From my reading on that page (and yes, I _would_ like those fifteen minutes of my life back, if you please), I gather that Ms. Schlussel is Jewish.
[/QUOTE]
Oops. I’m sorry I’m not full of _Jewish_ love like her, then.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/210 "2007-02-09T20:02:39Z")
You should be. Any folks who can give the world a word like _schtup_ prolly have lots of love.
😃
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/211 "2007-02-09T22:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
So by insulting someone’s beliefs, you are lying? How about trying to explain to someone why you think their beliefs are wrong instead of using the “pointing and laughing method”? Do you really think that will make them think about how wrong they are or will it put them on the defensive?
[/quote]
No, by _not_ insulting their beliefs I’d be lying. There’s no point in explaining ( although I sometimes do, anyway ), because if they are religious they are already beyond reason. And _nothing_ I do or say will convince them they are wrong or doubt themselves.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
Cite? That’s an absolutely ridiculous statement. Are you smarter than Jews and Muslims, too, or is it just the Christians?
[/quote]
What \*\*hotflungwok \*\* said. And all religion is stupid, not just Christianity; i see little difference between them.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
I’m with you on that, but I’m not talking about the assholes. I’m talking about the ones who quietly worship God without trying to convert everyone. Why can’t you “live and let live” when it comes to the Christians you _don’t_ notice? Do you insult them, too? What’s the point? To feel superior?
[/QUOTE]
If I don’t _notice_ them, I don’t say a thing on the subject to them; how would I know to do so ? As for the “assholes” who want to convert everyone, those are the Christians that matter. They are the ones who form the heart of Christianity, represent it’s true nature, and give it it’s direction. They are alos either the majority, or might as well be.
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
Do you have a site for the crime rate being higher for theists than for atheists?
[/QUOTE]
[This](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece) is the closest i can come offhand.
> [@](#):
>
> The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.
>
> Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”
>
> He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.
I of course consider higher crime and other destructive behavior to be only natural among theists; being theist means you have poorer judgement; it warps what judgement you have farther; and it gives theists a motive for crime and an excuse for crime that atheists simply don’t have.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
Wow, she’s a fucking moron. That doesn’t even make any sense. If an atheist doesn’t believe in ANY God, how are they to follow the Muslim _religion_? How does one function with such little gray matter?
[/QUOTE]
It makes perfect sense; the fundies tend to seperate the world into two groups; Christians and Satanists. If you are not exactly like them, you are a Satanist. Atheist = Muslim = Satanist in their eyes; you can add in “Catholic” or “Buddhist” or anything else to that list, depending on the brand of fundie. Many of them also take the attitude that those who disagree with them are not only Satanists, but that they _know_ that they are actually Satanists; they don’t believe that anyone actually disagrees with them.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/212 "2007-02-09T22:36:03Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
There’s no point in explaining ( although I sometimes do, anyway ), because if they are religious they are already beyond reason. And _nothing_ I do or say will convince them they are wrong or doubt themselves.
[/QUOTE]
Huh.
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### Author:  [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/213 "2007-02-09T22:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
No, by _not_ insulting their beliefs I’d be lying. There’s no point in explaining ( although I sometimes do, anyway ), because if they are religious they are already beyond reason. And _nothing_ I do or say will convince them they are wrong or doubt themselves.
[/QUOTE]
Then why bother (unless you like picking fights with people)?
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/214 "2007-02-09T23:02:39Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
And _nothing_ I do or say will convince them they are wrong or doubt themselves.
[/QUOTE]
Unlike you?
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/215 "2007-02-09T23:03:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Any folks who can give the world a word like schtup prolly have lots of love.
[annoying nitpick mode]
Actually, Yiddish _schtup_ isn’t originally a Hebrew word or one initially associated with Jews. Like most Yiddish words, it’s derived from a form of High German, in this case the German dialect word [_stupfen_](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shtup).
[/annoying nitpick mode]
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### Author:  [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/216 "2007-02-09T23:06:47Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
No, by _not_ insulting their beliefs I’d be lying. There’s no point in explaining ( although I sometimes do, anyway ), because if they are religious they are already beyond reason. And _nothing_ I do or say will convince them they are wrong or doubt themselves.
[/QUOTE]
And yet you keep at it. On _Seinfeld_ there was an episode where Elaine’s boyfriend Puddy was revealed to be religious, and Elaine asked why he didn’t care that she wasn’t. She got angry when he said that she was the one going to hell, not him, so why should it matter. If someone is truly religious they would be doing you a disservice by allowing you to suffer eternal damnation. A religious persone who doesn’t try to convert you doesn’t care about you.
On the other hand as an atheist I have no obligation to convert anyone. It is truly no skin off my ass whatever they believe. I resist to the best of my abilities government support of religion, but I’m certainly not going to make a cottage industry of it. The government supports things I find much more objectionable than religion. Yes, Jesus is no more real than Santa Claus, but who doesn’t love Santa Claus? And if you don’t love Santa, who can spare the effort to hate him? I’ve got enough trouble hating people who actually exist.
I guess my point is why do you bother? You admit there’s nothing rational about religion, and you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason into.
I moved from New York State to southwest Ohio several years ago, and the neighbors started up with the “What church do you belong to?” nonsense, but I have a pretty effective way to deal with that, and we don’t discuss it any more. We get a real good turnout on Halloween, because while we pass out full size candy bars (there’s nothing fun about a “fun size” bar) the God Squad is passing out penny candy wrapped in a bible verse.
I know prejudice against atheists exists, and I’m against it, but you can’t do anything about it. Pick your battles, do the best you can, and lighten up.
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### Author:  [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/217 "2007-02-09T23:30:30Z")
I’m an agnostic/atheist who was raised in a Southern fundamentalist Christian environment. For a long time, I went around aggressively pushing my atheism just like everyone around me did their Christianity. Then, when I realized I was being a hypocrite, I went in the atheist closet and never spoke to anyone about religion. Now I try to follow the “rule of three”. If someone asks me about religion or brings it up in a way that I am expected to respond, I say “I don’t think it’s appropriate to discuss religion in this setting.” If they press it, I say “I’m sorry, I’m not comfortable talking about this. Can we please change the subject?” If they continue to press it, I say “Please let’s talk about something else. I don’t think discussing religion like this ever does any good.” All of these statements are the truth, and reflect my true feelings on the subject. If they still won’t take no for an answer, I mentally declare a free-fire zone and tell them in no uncertain terms what I really think about religion in general and Christianity in particular, occasionally reminding them that I had repeatedly asked to change the subject, but they just had to press it. The only exception is when someone knocks on my door uninvited to talk to me about their religion. Those people are shown no mercy.
I think my technique works. I live in a heavily Christian area, and I am left alone, which is how I like it. I would also add that no more than one or two people a year get the full treatment. I agree with posters above who say that, for the most part, religious people are generally more tolerant and pragmatic than their more extreme rhetoric would suggest.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/218 "2007-02-09T23:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu]
[annoying nitpick mode]
Actually, Yiddish _schtup_ isn’t originally a Hebrew word or one initially associated with Jews. Like most Yiddish words, it’s derived from a form of High German, in this case the German dialect word [_stupfen_](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shtup).
[/annoying nitpick mode]
[/QUOTE]
[Counter-nitpick]
The Hebrew-osity of the word was not being asserted, just the Jewishness. 😛
[/counter-nitpick]
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### Author:  [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/219 "2007-02-10T00:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
No, I don’t think we should be playing the “victim” card because no one knows you are an atheist unless you announce it. That said, you have to recognize there’s a lot of prejudice about atheists floating around outside the SDMB. I remember once listening to regular, not wildly right wing radio station in Georgia where a commentator casually lumped atheists in with murderers and armed robbers as ‘bad people.’
[/QUOTE]
Personally, I dislike being labeled an Atheist or an Agnostic. Why must I have a label for not believing in something that has never been empirically shown to exist? And must I have a label for _everything_ a person, or an overwhelming group of persons, believes exists but which hasn’t been shown to _actually_ exist (by the _strict_ scientific interpretation of the word).
There is pretty overwhelming empirical evidence that the Holocaust happened. Thus, those who do not believe it happened are labeled “Holocaust Deniers.” Fine, I get that. There is absolutely no empirical evidence that flying toasters exist. Must someone who does not believe flying toasters exist be labeled accordingly?
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/220 "2007-02-10T00:20:56Z")
[QUOTE=Mince]
Must someone who does not believe flying toasters exist be labeled accordingly?
[/QUOTE]
One of my fondest dreams is to live in a world where “atheists” don’t exist … . 😉
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