# "Athiests Need to Just Shut Up" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204 "2007-02-07T14:30:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/341 "2007-02-15T08:05:42Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I’m pretty sure I meant “imagination”. No matter how you perceive that tree, it’s still gonna knock you on your ass if you walk into it. Any “god” that exists solely in your mind? Not so much. [/QUOTE] No you see that’s just because of the all too common but misguided belief in the solidity of trees. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/342 "2007-02-15T10:52:08Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I’m pretty sure I meant “imagination”. No matter how you perceive that tree, it’s still gonna knock you on your ass if you walk into it. Any “god” that exists solely in your mind? Not so much. [/QUOTE] You’re still reasoning in circles. “Whatever is real will knock me on my ass. Trees are real, and so they knock me on my ass.” You value ass knocking. You have trees. Good for you! So, what is your complaint that I value God and have Him? Especially when I’ve said more power to you for what you value. It is as though you would bristle if I found some happiness that had eluded you. Why, Czar… are you jealous? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/343 "2007-02-15T12:23:21Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You’re still reasoning in circles. “Whatever is real will knock me on my ass. Trees are real, and so they knock me on my ass.” You value ass knocking. You have trees. Good for you! So, what is your complaint that I value God and have Him? Especially when I’ve said more power to you for what you value. It is as though you would bristle if I found some happiness that had eluded you. Why, Czar… are you jealous? 🙂 [/QUOTE] My mistake entirely for using a simple analogy with someone who once “proved” gods existence with a formula. No, I am not jealous of any emotions that you might feel at any moment-I can pretty much guarantee that I feel the same emotions you do. I am saying(again, IMHO) that the reality _of the personal god you describe_ is in doubt. Not some “reality” that exists for you and you alone, but the common, shared reality the can _directly_ effect the rest of the universe. Note the word “direct” in that last sentence, please, so that we can head off any “My personal god makes me feel _thus_, which causes me to act _thus_, and that’s how he effects and interacts with the world!” arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/344 "2007-02-15T12:29:48Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] No you see that’s just because of the all too common but misguided belief in the solidity of trees. [/QUOTE] Well, you can believe in “personal” trees that exist only in your own reality, but there’s one small problem-you’re not going get get very high climbing _those_ branches, and the fruit of the “personal” tree leaves you feeling mighty hungry after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/345 "2007-02-15T16:18:28Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] My mistake entirely for using a simple analogy with someone who once “proved” gods existence with a formula. [/quote] Who would that be? > [@](#): > > No, I am not jealous of any emotions that you might feel at any moment-I can pretty much guarantee that I feel the same emotions you do. I understand. I love trees too. Just not so much. > [@](#): > > I am saying(again, IMHO) that the reality _of the personal god you describe_ is in doubt. Not some “reality” that exists for you and you alone, but the common, shared reality the can _directly_ effect the rest of the universe. Note the word “direct” in that last sentence, please, so that we can head off any “My personal god makes me feel _thus_, which causes me to act _thus_, and that’s how he effects and interacts with the world!” arguments. But… but… you were just insisting that God _does_ affect reality. In fact, you rejected my suggestion that you meant “perception” when you said “imagination”. You don’t ascribe to me merely an entity that I perceive; you ascribe to me an entity that causes me to imagine things — i.e., it’s _affecting_ me. I’m a part of the universe, right? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/346 "2007-02-15T22:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You posted that moronic comment immediately after I gave a link to the dictionary definition, which matches my own. Dumbass. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say it’s not a definition; I said nobody commonly uses it. Oh…except _you_. :rolleyes: But hey, keep on thinking you’re right and the rest of the world is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/347 "2007-02-15T22:53:45Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] I didn’t say it’s not a definition; I said nobody commonly uses it. Oh…except _you_. :rolleyes: But hey, keep on thinking you’re right and the rest of the world is wrong. [/QUOTE] Well, you should inform the folks at [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com). It’s definition number 1. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/348 "2007-02-15T23:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Well, you can believe in “personal” trees that exist only in your own reality, but there’s one small problem-you’re not going get get very high climbing _those_ branches, and the fruit of the “personal” tree leaves you feeling mighty hungry after a while. [/QUOTE] Only if you don’t believe in them enough 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/349 "2007-02-16T00:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Who would that be? I understand. I love trees too. Just not so much. But… but… you were just insisting that God _does_ affect reality. In fact, you rejected my suggestion that you meant “perception” when you said “imagination”. You don’t ascribe to me merely an entity that I perceive; you ascribe to me an entity that causes me to imagine things — i.e., it’s _affecting_ me. I’m a part of the universe, right? [/QUOTE] Now I’m curious-What exactly did I say in your personal reality that caused you to respond with the above post, because in _my_ personal reality I didn’t ascribe any entities to you whatsoever(unless you are claiming that you are totally incapable of imagining anything without the aid of some supernatural entity possessing you)? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/350 "2007-02-16T07:55:55Z")
[QUOTE=Auntbeast] And no, I’m not burying a statue of St. Whomever to get my house to sell. [/QUOTE] Saint Remax? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/351 "2007-02-16T12:13:19Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Now I’m curious-What exactly did I say in your personal reality that caused you to respond with the above post, because in _my_ personal reality I didn’t ascribe any entities to you whatsoever(unless you are claiming that you are totally incapable of imagining anything without the aid of some supernatural entity possessing you)? [/QUOTE] Wait a minute. Are you saying that I’m imagining not just the entity, but the experiences as well? Are we back to the old claim that I’m delusional? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/352 "2007-02-16T12:25:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Wait a minute. Are you saying that I’m imagining not just the entity, but the experiences as well? Are we back to the old claim that I’m delusional? [/QUOTE] Your reality, your god-_you_ deal with it. I find the real world wondrous, complex and mysterious enough as it is, so I feel no need to add extraneous “gods” into the mix just to make it more so. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/353 "2007-02-16T13:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I find the real world wondrous, complex and mysterious enough as it is, so I feel no need to add extraneous “gods” into the mix just to make it more so. [/QUOTE] Same for me, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/354 "2007-02-16T22:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, you should inform the folks at [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com). It’s definition number 1. [/QUOTE] You might want to consult another source next time. American Heritage: [http://www.bartleby.com/61/70/P0547000.html](http://www.bartleby.com/61/70/P0547000.html) > [@](#): > > 1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified. My hard copy of Webster’s: > [@](#): > > Making claims to some distinction, importance, etc. Oxford: > **[Oxford Languages](https://languages.oup.com/)** > > The home of language data. > [@](#): > > attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed. [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pretentious](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pretentious) > [@](#): > > Making claim to or creating an appearance of (often undeserved) importance or distinction Cambridge: [http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=pretentious\*1+0&dict=A](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=pretentious*1+0&dict=A) > [@](#): > > DISAPPROVING > trying to give the appearance of great importance, esp. in a way that is obvious [http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=pretentious&goquery=Find+it!&Language=ENG](http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=pretentious&goquery=Find+it%21&Language=ENG) > [@](#): > > pompous, self-important or foolishly grandiose. Your definition doesn’t even _appear_ in any of these sources. It might be included in an unabridged dictionary, and in [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), where it appears as: “full of pretense or pretension.” They obviously listed it that way so as to indicate which noun it derives from, and if you take the additional step of looking up “pretense”, you would arrive at the incorrect conclusion that yours is the most common usage. But it’s patently obvious that is not a common usage, to the point that it’s not even _included_ in most dictionaries. But please, Liberal - feel free to go on thinking you’re right and the entire rest of the world is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204.md?page=17)