# "Athiests Need to Just Shut Up"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 7, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204 "2007-02-07T14:30:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/141 "2007-02-08T13:54:07Z")
Re: Debbie Schlussel and the Atheists=Radical Islamists comment.
I have seen some rational commentary (need I say, not by her) that Europe (which is much more secular than the U.S.) is hosting an increasingly radical and powerful Islamist element, and that part of the cause is that the general tolerance and lack of interest in religion there offers no strong opposition to immigrants who import strong, even rabid, Islamic beliefs. I can see how that might make sense to a degree. I’m betting it’s a LOT more complicated than that one element, but it makes sense that this could be a contributing factor.
Schlussel seems to have taken this and run all the way to Idiotville with it. Secular Europe has rising Islamist power. Therefore secularism in a society leads to Islamicism. Therefore individual atheists are going to become Islamist militants. Therefore an atheist is pretty much an Islamist militant. I’m not even going to try to unpack all the logical fallacies in that “argument.” But if you were wondering where she came up with it, I believe that is the source.
That, and she’s an idiot.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/142 "2007-02-08T14:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=Unauthorized Cinnamon]
I have seen some rational commentary (need I say, not by her) that Europe (which is much more secular than the U.S.) is hosting an increasingly radical and powerful Islamist element, and that part of the cause is that the general tolerance and lack of interest in religion there offers no strong opposition to immigrants who import strong, even rabid, Islamic beliefs.
[/quote]
My understanding has been that the problem in Europe is due to a long history of ghettoization of muslims, whereas the muslim experience in America has been characterized by greater opportunities. Thus, European muslims are radicalizing where American muslims are hopeful about their futures.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/143 "2007-02-08T14:17:59Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Angel]
The claim that this is a Christian nation won’t hold up by examining the intent of the founding fathers, so of course they rely on the _ad populum_ argument that our citizens are overwhelmingly Christian.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, that’s what the founders **said** , but we all know what they meant (wink wink).
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/144 "2007-02-08T14:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager]
No problem. My point was that calling these people out isn’t something you do lightly - even if you have impecable religious credentials. They got God on their side, and they know Catholics aren’t real Christians anyhow.
[/QUOTE]
You in a Baptist area, too?
I’m an Atheist who is technically Catholic. I’m like damned squared down here.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/145 "2007-02-08T14:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99]
How does that even make sense? I’m an atheist, so I’m likely to become a Muslim extremist?
[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah. You shoulda gotten that memo. I totally mailed it. It’s probably at your house right now.
[QUOTE=Unauthorized Cinnamon]
Schlussel seems to have taken this and run all the way to Idiotville with it.
[/QUOTE]
All the way? She’s been ensconced there with a monitoring anklet and her car keys taken away for years.
**olivesmarch4th** : It sounds like you wound up with all the good family members. I’ve always wondered where they went to. Congratulations to you and to them.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/146 "2007-02-08T15:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Dude, ask the people doing it. I just report; you jerk the knee.
[/QUOTE]
**Dio** ’s response was informative, and more or less answered my question. Your response, on the other hand, was not informative and did not answer my question.
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### Author:  [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/147 "2007-02-08T17:06:24Z")
[QUOTE=Auntbeast]
I’ll happily shut up.
Once my friend stops sending me glurgy religious crap. The other one reciting how I screamed “oh my god” when I was in labor. When the 10 commandments are off the courthouse steps of my grandmothers county. When I stop being asked if I baptised my daughter. (I responded that I was jewish, I was at work surrounded by 10 folks who I didn’t feel needed to know I was an atheist) When I stop getting freaky looks from people when the subject comes up. When I stop being accused of lacking morals because I lack christ. When people stop using christianity as a way to pull the wool over your eyes into thinking that automagically makes them decent people.
When other folks allow me to believe whatever the hell I want to believe or disbelieve, the same way I let them.
Do unto others indeed.
And no, I’m not burying a statue of St. Whomever to get my house to sell.
Until you walk a mile in an atheists shoes and see how pervasive christianity is in every day life, you really have no idea. I liken it to a recovering alcholic walking around in a world filled with alcohol. It can be stifling.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. You really do just need to shut the hell up! All of your problems are created in your own little head. I grew up in Tampa. There’s no mob of fanatical Christians running around shunning your atheism. Fuck! Stop being so damned smug.
I dont believe in Jesus or any God. It’s never been a big deal, no one has ever looked at me differently or oppressed my beliefs or any of the other bullshit you’re saying. But I also dont feel the need to run around screaming “I’m an atheist! Stop oppressing me! I’m grand! I’m different!”
Just fucking get over yourself. No one gives a shit that you’re an atheist. Certainly no one in Tampa. You’re not living in the bible belt or fucking Utah for christs sake.
I get a good laugh at religious towns like here in Georgia where there is actually a “FAITH” section of the Newspaper. But I dont feel discriminated against because of it. I dont feel the need to remind _everyone_ that I don’t share their beliefs. The same way I dont go around bragging that my favorite color is blue, and mentioning to everyone how much I like blue. And then feeling banished from a society the majority of which is more likeing to yellow.
Who the fuck cares?!
I’ll say it again. Shut the fuck up, **Auntbeast**. You’re not being discriminated against, and nobody gives a shit what your beliefs are. They dont care if you’re agnostic, atheist, or whatever. The only person who thinks it is an issue is YOU. So. Shut. Up.
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### Author:  [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/148 "2007-02-08T17:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
I don’t know how it is in Tampa, but in NY this doesn’t seem to be a problem as you are describing. The worst I have seen is my sister-in-law who is “born again” and, while it’s annoying, I let her do her thing and say what she thinks. I ignore it. It doesn’t get under my skin. When she sends me glurgy emails, I hit delete without reading them. It doesn’t effect my life in the least.
Your analogy is flawed. It’s like you’re saying that you renounced Christianity and now it’s all around you and impossible to avoid being sucked back in. That’s not the case. You never believed to begin with.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not an issue at all in Tampa. I have no idea where that poster is coming from. If he/she is having those types of arguments with friends, then maybe it’s time for new friends?
If I made friends with all Jehovah’s Witnesses, and then later bitched that none of them shared my beliefs… whose fault is that? That poster should tell the friends to stop sending her stupid emails. End of story.
If you keep accepting the emails and not saying anything to the friend. But you get all upset and butt hurt about it. Fuck, that’s your fault. Tell your friend to fuck off. Get a new friend if she doesn’t listen. Don’t preach about how the whole world is against you! :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/149 "2007-02-08T17:30:41Z")
[UPDATE](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/02/cnn_must_have_felt_the_heat.php).
This is what happens when atheists don’t shut up:
> [@](#):
>
> .I just got word from Richard Dawkins that they are going to repeat the lead segment (the part with the ostracized atheist family), and then instead of showing the bumbling bigot panel, they’re planning to replace that debacle with a new interview with Richard Dawkins. That’s tonight, Thursday, at 8PM EST.
I would have rather seen Dawkins rip some brand new assholes in the original panel, but I’m glad to see that CNN is feeling enough heat (apparently) to actually give an atheist a say about this story.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/150 "2007-02-08T17:31:47Z")
[QUOTE=Frank]
**Dio** ’s response was informative, and more or less answered my question. Your response, on the other hand, was not informative and did not answer my question.
[/QUOTE]
Noted.
Likewise, your commment to me was uninformed and random. Tdn asked for a Readers Digest version of the videos. I gave him what he asked for. He thanked me. Then, you swooped in…
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/151 "2007-02-08T17:55:12Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Tdn asked for a Readers Digest version of the videos. I gave him what he asked for.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, you did, and I still thank you for it.
You did, however (and I don’t blame you for this), neglect to mention the 2nd part of the 2nd video. I watched it last night, and I was appalled at the incredible vortex of stoopid.
One thing stuck out in the maelstrom of idiocity, and that was the greeting card comment. Imagine if I said that, say, blacks should just shut up and that if they only had greeting cards they would stop whining. How offensive would that be? I hope that woman gets her ass handed to her tonight.
BTW, who were those three? Am I supposed to know who they are? I don’t watch CNN normally.
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### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/152 "2007-02-08T17:56:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
[UPDATE](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/02/cnn_must_have_felt_the_heat.php).
This is what happens when atheists don’t shut up:
I would have rather seen Dawkins rip some brand new assholes in the original panel, but I’m glad to see that CNN is feeling enough heat (apparently) to actually give an atheist a say about this story.
[/QUOTE]
Good on CNN to acknowledge their biased “panel” and the need for a rational response from the other side.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/153 "2007-02-08T18:34:22Z")
CNN’s very brave to put one of “Them” on the air. I hope American’s 200-some odd-million Christians can survive those five minutes.
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### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/154 "2007-02-08T19:08:08Z")
I predict outraged calls for boycotts.
After taking a look at Debbie Shlussel’s blog (_shudder_), I’m really disappointed that we won’t get to see Dawkins debatively kick her ass.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/155 "2007-02-08T19:17:54Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23]
I hope American’s 200-some odd-million Christians can survive those five minutes.
[/QUOTE]
What on earth would lead you to believe otherwise?
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### Author:  [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/156 "2007-02-08T19:34:43Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Angel]
My point is that I have seen a number of groups claim to be the “last people it’s still okay to persecute” including Christians, poor whites, rich whites, southern whites, lawyers, fat people, smokers, ect.
[/quote]
Neither whites nor Christians are a minority, and I think overweight people _are_ discriminated against.
> [@](#):
>
> I hated to see atheists try and make a grab for that mantle, because that kind of martyrdom is not ennobling. It only provokes jeers from the opposition, and embarrassed-to-be-with-this-guy feelings from allies.
Are those the best examples you could find, though? That CNN spot is so over-the-top; how could you not react to it? Kind of like asking the black people in the audience for that Michael Richards act not to complain about it.
Sorry, I’m not seeing it…
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/157 "2007-02-08T19:45:32Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
Neither whites nor Christians are a minority, and I think overweight people _are_ discriminated against.
[/QUOTE]
Be that as it may, it doesn’t mean that people who are white or people who are Christian cannot be persecuted (the original term used by Johnny Angel, or discriminated against, your term). For one thing, a person may be white or Christian (or both) _and_ still be a part of some persecuted minority. Like poor white Appalachian trash snake handlers. Their poverty puts them in a persecuted class. But aside from the excluded middle fallacy, it is also possible to persecute a majority class. Power-greedy lawmakers or business tycoons, for example, may abuse the entire general populace in which the vast majority of people have no jurisprudential doctorate.
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### Author:  [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/158 "2007-02-08T19:49:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
For one thing, a person may be white or Christian (or both) _and_ still be a part of some persecuted minority. Like poor white Appalachian trash snake handlers. Their poverty puts them in a persecuted class.
[/QUOTE]
And in this case, they are being persecuted for their poverty, not their religion.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/159 "2007-02-08T20:08:49Z")
A couple of small updates from Richard Dawkin’s website:
[
> [@](#):
>
> Various people on Pharyngula have made the point that it would have been better to have had American voices rather than my English one on CNN tonight. The same thought occurred to me yesterday, and I suggested some names, including Michael Newdow who was actually slandered by one of the morons on the previous program. Unfortunately, however, CNN were adamant that they wanted a one-on-one between me and Paula Zahn. So I’ll just have to do the best I can, with apologies to those who could surely have done a better job. I think it is possible that CNN don’t want to concentrate on American attitudes to atheists this time, so much as on atheism more generaly (I was told that Paula Zahn is reading The God Delusion).
> Richard
[url=[http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,621,Panel-discussion-on-atheism-where-no-atheists-are-included,CNN,page4#21268](http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,621,Panel-discussion-on-atheism-where-no-atheists-are-included,CNN,page4#21268)]And this](]This[/url)
> [@](#):
>
> I just learned that CNN’s plan for this evening has changed. My 20 minute interview will be edited down to about 4 minutes, and it will be followed by a panel discussion involving Christopher Hitchens (representing atheists) and two religious spokesmen.
> Richard
I’m kind of annoyed that they’re paring down the Dawkins interview (no doubt so they can edit Zahn into the best light possible and get rid of any overly embarrassing points scored by Dawkins), but I’m slightly heartened by addition of Chris Hitchens to a panel discussion. Even though he’ll still be outnumbered, Hitch is NEVER outmatched and has no tolerance for fools. This could be entertaining.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-need-to-just-shut-up/391204/160 "2007-02-08T20:14:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
This could be entertaining.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll be wearing my atheist letterman sweater and one of those big foam fingers, cheering my team on.
But yeah, shame about the paring down. While Dawkins sometimes comes off as an elitist, I always like hearing him talk.
**Dio** , private question: What did you think of The God Delusion?
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