# Athiests why do you need the bible to be removed from your hotel room? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588 "2016-08-31T18:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/141 "2016-09-02T14:31:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I guess if a person had been Bible-bashed enough, they might have an aversion to having one in the same room with them. Kind of like if they had been abused as a child by being beaten with wire coat hangers or burned with a steam iron, they might be bothered by finding those things in their hotel room. I think for a lot of people, the bible represents (because a lot of Christians have made it represent) widespread homophobia and hatred. There are a lot of Christians in the country who represent the bible as little more than several hundred pages of “God hates fags.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the recipients of these messages to say “You say the bible says God hates fags. If that’s what it represents to you, that’s what it represents to me.” If a group offered, for free, to go into every hotel room in America and write “God hates fags” on a mirror, I don’t think most of us would be okay with that. But we seem to be okay with a whole lot of people distilling the bible down to that message and then acting as if hearing that message is the fault of the listener. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/142 "2016-09-02T14:42:39Z")
I’d like to have an IKEA catalogue placed in my hotel room, current and up to date, because shopping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/143 "2016-09-02T14:48:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can think of a number of things that would disappoint me in a hotel room - A/C can’t get the room cool enough for my liking, too much noise in the hallway, low water pressure in the shower, uncomfy pillows, slow Wi-Fi, the TV doesn’t get HLN and I can’t get my _Forensic Files_ fix - but the presence of a Bible isn’t among them. Nobody’s forcing me to read it. Nobody’s forcing me to even look at it. It’s not going to burn my flesh if I accidentally touch it while reaching for a glass of water in the middle of the night. > > The only time I’m ever apt to interact with it is just before I check in, when I search all the drawers and cabinets for hidden treasure. Would it bother you if there were, say, a Koran instead of a Bible? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/144 "2016-09-02T15:10:29Z")
There was a minor kerfuffle when Travelodge, which is a large UK hotel chain, removed the Bibles from all of its rooms. This doesn’t seem to have been as a result of complaints, but proactive corporate [Travelodge removes the Bible from every room | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726128/Travelodge-removes-Bible-room.html) As an atheist myself, Bibles in hotels don’t bother me at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/145 "2016-09-02T16:16:49Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Would it bother you if there were, say, a Koran instead of a Bible? > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would be fascinated by the appearance - and what it says about our changing nation (assuming I found it in the US as opposed to Saudi Arabia). Then again, I own 2 copies of the Qur’an. Given that much of it is an overlap with the Old Testament - I just don’t personally see the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/146 "2016-09-02T16:19:53Z")
To be clear, FRFF only asked [one hotel](http://www.snopes.com/angry-atheists-ban-bible/) to remove its bibles, the Holmes Student Center Hotel at Northern Illinois University. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/147 "2016-09-02T22:11:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > A Danielle Steel novel in my hotel room? _That_ I’d have a problem with. How about “The Da Vinci Code”? I tried to read that and gave up after the first chapter or thereabouts. A couple years ago, the library donated about 20 mint-condition copies of that book to an artist who was using them for an art project. In short, they tied up the books with string and hung them from the ceiling; if someone saw a book they wanted, they could have it for a donation to the project, and they would replace it with yet another book that was ready to go in the back room. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/148 "2016-09-03T11:08:30Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > [http://www.deseretnewsservice.com/hotel-reportedly-removes-bibles-from-rooms-after-atheist-complaint-433198](http://www.deseretnewsservice.com/hotel-reportedly-removes-bibles-from-rooms-after-atheist-complaint-433198) Did you read the article your link goes to? The specific atheists you are providing as proof of your claim seem to have made statements that answer your question quite adequately. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/149 "2016-09-03T11:14:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Note a very specific point in this article: > > This particular fight isn’t about “Bibles in hotel rooms”; it’s about “Bibles in state-run university facilities.” > > The article also notes that the atheist group (Freedom From Religion Foundation) has attempted to get private hoteliers to remove the Bibles, as well, though it doesn’t sound like they’ve gotten any success there. > > **Also, for the record: Deseret News Service is an arm of the LDS Church, so it may not be entirely unbiased in its own reporting.** Although, give them their due, they appear to be letting the atheist group that lodged the complaint and made the request make their own case and put forward their own arguments in support of their position. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/150 "2016-09-03T12:26:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Y’know, I had been missing a spirited visit from the “Religion: BAD!!” crew. > > Yeah, the LaVeyans could be fun. > > Hmmm… I wonder if somewhere there are hotels with a copy of Dianetics in the nightstand… If you’re ever in Clearwater, FL, you might could check it out… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/151 "2016-09-03T13:14:16Z")
In Thailand or Japan it’s most likely to be the Teaching of Buddha (In English) and sometimes a bible as well. Most of the bibles in hotel rooms are donated by the Gideon society, they’re not paid for by the hotels. According to this article the Society for the Promotion of Buddhism has been placing the Teaching of Buddha books in some hotels in the US as well: > **[Bible Now Shares Hotel Rooms With Some Other Good Books (Published 1995)](https://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/26/us/bible-now-shares-hotel-rooms-with-some-other-good-books.html)** And yeah nope it wouldn’t bother me if there was a Koran there as well as a Bible and the Teaching of Buddha or any combination of the three. It’s a book and I just ignore it, it’s not going to jump out of the drawer in the middle of the night and attack me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/152 "2016-09-03T14:05:47Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The only one I care about is Constitutional, personally. > > It would be interesting to see that in Court. If the hotel does not accept the free tracks from other groups, then I see a 1st Amendment case. If, however, the hotel is open to other groups than they can keep on as they always have until the desk has a full library of different bits and pieces it would seem. What First Amendment issue says that a private business must accept and display proselytizing material from anyone who asks? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/153 "2016-09-03T14:42:39Z")
It has been mentioned several times that the case that generated the quoted article had to do with a hotel that was part of a public college, so there would be the governmental-entity factor at play for claiming First Amendment issues. That seems to be ignored by some posters on both sides. Entirely private entities are another kettle of fish, and the \*mere presence \*of a Bible may only violate the guest’s more recently conceived (and by no means yet universally accepted) right-to-not-be-offended. Which does not mean that you, the individual, are not actually being offended, but your being offended does not always necessarily create a cause for redress in the form of forbidding that which caused you offense. Sometimes your redress is to take your business elsewhere, write a letter to the Editor denouncing that the White Inn on Power Avenue gives away free copies of _The Turner Diaries_ in the nightstands, set up a picket line and call for boycotts of all those doing business with them. Now, OTOH, if there were a situation that other religious denominations wanted to also place their materials _on the same terms as the Gideons_ and private innkeepers _refused_ them, someone could argue an issue of equal access to a business accommodation open to the public – if a hotelier may not refuse lodging to someone on account of their religion, can they refuse placement of any scriptures? I do believe private-owner discretion would still prevail at this time, who knows a few years down the road. (And some religions and denominations may not even try this due to the matter of whether the materials may be vulnerable to desecration; or that the scripture has to be in the ritual language or a specific authorized translation used) ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/154 "2016-09-03T15:08:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What First Amendment issue says that a private business must accept and display proselytizing material from anyone who asks? > > Regards, > Shodan The hotel in question is not private (or might not be fully private it appears). It has a connection to official governmental power, which means (as I understand it) that you can’t pick and choose among religious groups to accommodate. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/155 "2016-09-03T16:08:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What First Amendment issue says that a private business must accept and display proselytizing material from anyone who asks? In the specific case in point, the FFRF case was that this was state-run accommodation. In the case of a genuinely private hotel: the law says that “public accommodations” (including private hotels that are open to the public) cannot _discriminate_ based on religion. It would surely be a stretch to claim that religious propaganda passively placed in a closed drawer constitutes discrimination. But this must be a quantitative question. There is presumably some greater amount of “in-your-face” religious proselytization that could create a sufficiently hostile environment for non-believers that a court might hold that it’s effectively discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/156 "2016-09-03T16:31:58Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The hotel in question is not private (or might not be fully private it appears). It has a connection to official governmental power, which means (as I understand it) that you can’t pick and choose among religious groups to accommodate. The hotel in question disputes, apparently. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/157 "2016-09-03T16:38:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The hotel in question disputes, apparently. Snopes says that the “Holmes Student Center” at N Illiinois U immediately acquiesced to the FFRF letter. > **[Angry Atheists Ban the Bible?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/angry-atheists-ban-bible/)** > > The FFRF and the ACLJ are sparring over the matter of Bibles in hotel rooms. Or is there another case? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/158 "2016-09-03T17:26:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The hotel in question disputes, apparently. > > Regards, > Shodan If they did dispute it, they’d be on shaky legal ground. Same as if any other government institution was promoting a religion. I assume that you would not want a publicly funded institution promoting non-christian beliefs. Fortunately, that is not the case, and they agreed quickly. Unless there is another hotel in question. Were you thinking of a different story? If so, please link it, it would be very interesting to see what legal argument they could come up with to overrule the first amendment. ETA: Not sure if I was actually ninja’d on that or not, or if I saw reinman’s post before posting my own. I get interrupted alot. Sorry for repeating. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/159 "2016-09-03T17:54:09Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > I don’t really care about it too much, but it is yet another way of having it shoved in your face. If someone really wants a bible they’ve probably already got one, they just don’t need to be there. > > Like someone said earlier, imagine the noise if all hotels started putting Korans or books on witchcraft in their rooms. But no, because it’s their special book that makes it ok. I see no problem with finding a Koran, or a book of Mormon, or some other book in the room. If it were something unusual and offensive (Mein Kampf) I would wonder why it was there, whether I might be in danger at the hotel, and whether I might be monetarily supporting that philosophy. But I happen to know that the Bible is there with no strings attached, it does not suggest a threat, and my hotel dollars aren’t even funding it. As for the hypothetical gay kid in the Bible belt… I’m pretty sure that’s not the first Bible he’s seen, and I doubt it much changes his hotel experience. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588/160 "2016-09-03T22:54:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The hotel in question disputes, apparently. > > Regards, > Shodan Not according to the link in post 27. The hotel disputed a date in the letter, but removed the Bibles per the request. [http://www.deseretnewsservice.com/hotel-reportedly-removes-bibles-from-rooms-after-atheist-complaint-433198](http://www.deseretnewsservice.com/hotel-reportedly-removes-bibles-from-rooms-after-atheist-complaint-433198) > [@](#): > > The letter stated that the atheist group was under the impression that Thunderbird Executive Inn had — along with the Thunderbird School of Global Management — become units of the public university in 2015. > > But a brief response note from Morrison that was > > dated July 19 said that “ownership of the inn did not change in 2015 as (the Freedom From Religion Foundation) letter assumes.” > > An article on the Arizona State University website notes that the Thunderbird School of Global Management became a unit of the state school in 2014, not 2015. Deseret News National has called both Morrison’s office as well as the inn to seek clarification on the Bible removal as well as ownership of the inn, but requests for comment have not yet been returned. > > The dispute over dates aside, Morrison wrote in his response that he decided to make a change to the hotel’s Bible policy. > > “I have, however, requested that religious materials be removed from the Inn’s guest rooms,” he wrote. “I trust that resolves your concerns.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/athiests-why-do-you-need-the-bible-to-be-removed-from-your-hotel-room/764588.md?page=9)