# Atlanta massage parlor shootings - white perp, "apparently" Asian victims **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 17, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065 "2021-03-17T05:59:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/81 "2021-03-20T17:39:14Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I do not understand the interest in a madman’s motivation. I suppose the police and other specialist have to dive down that nasty rabbit hole, but I prefer not to. Hate is hate. Evil is evil. The rest are simply details of one person own flavor of madness. > > We must build a society where we can live together in peace. The public’s interest is just how humans are. They want to know the why. The state needs to know as part of the prosecution. Motive may not be the most important part of the case but juries want to know. If there is hate crime statutes involved motive is a major component of the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/82 "2021-03-20T21:33:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > > I mean, we could just use “the razor” to cut out the sex workers. . . . > > uh, okay. It’s been done. Often. Mutilated sex workers aren’t quite a “TV Trope”, but they are a commonplace among the victims of the more crazed flavor of murderer. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/83 "2021-03-20T21:39:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It’s been done. Often. Mutilated sex workers aren’t quite a “TV Trope”, but they are a commonplace among the victims of the more crazed flavor of murderer. Yikes–that’s not what I, or ASL, was saying at all. To be clear, I wasn’t trying to misrepresent what ASL was saying here–rather, just quoting the first part to say I’m not convinced his explanation is parsimonious, when we have four different sources (the killer, the killer’s friend, the police, and a gross website dedicated to Yelping sex work businesses) suggesting otherwise. I’m willing to be persuaded, but it’ll take evidence that overrides these four sources. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/84 "2021-03-20T21:56:21Z")
I didn’t misunderstand either of you. It was just too great a natural set-up to pass up. FWIW, I agree w your take over **ASL** ’s True crazy is damn near random. The problem with religiously-motivated crazy is that it’s directed enough that it _isn’t_ random. The perp’s reasons were absolutely defective / evil / factually wrong. But they were almost certainly internally consistent. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/85 "2021-03-20T21:59:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > It’s been done. Often. Mutilated sex workers aren’t quite a “TV Trope”, but they are a commonplace among the victims of the more crazed flavor of murderer. > > To be clear, I wasn’t trying to misrepresent what ASL was saying here–rather, just quoting the first part to say I’m not convinced his explanation is parsimonious, when we have four different sources (the killer, the killer’s friend, the police, and a gross website dedicated to Yelping sex work businesses) suggesting otherwise. I’m willing to be persuaded, but it’ll take evidence that overrides these four sources. I wish this had been your original reply, and not “um okay.” I never get comments like that, as they seem worse than not saying anything at all. They acknowledge that you’ve seen the argument, but then you’ve not provided any counterargument. They just seem to be using rhetoric to be dismissive without actually showing it to be wrong. He makes a valid point—your “Occam’s razor” argument doesn’t actually require that the people involved were definitely sex workers. They could be people he thought were sex workers, and he assumed so just because they were Asian massage parlors. The part where you cite evidence is more persuasive than your Occam’s razor argument, IMHO. Occam’s razor doesn’t require them to be sex workers, but the evidence does suggest they might be. I understand people being touchy on this subject. It is a hateful stereotype that all Asian massage parlors are actually fronts for sex work, and I get why people want to make sure they stay clear of insinuating that. ASL seems to be being more cautious on that front that you or **mordecaiB**. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/86 "2021-03-21T07:08:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Going by the various police reports and stings that go on around here the sex workers that are arrested are usually middle aged and up. The perception that they are always young girls that are being trafficked is not usually true in my experience. I don’t know if any of the victims are sex workers. Nothing about their age would make me assume they are not. This surprises me. At this age is it safe to assume that the women, if they are sex workers, are not trafficked, just working there as , well, work? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/87 "2021-03-21T12:41:55Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Call me an ageist, but I don’t think happy ending massages, if that’s what these places were, would be staffed with a bunch of over 50 year old women. That was my first thought. But my husband reminded me of a funny story a bridge buddy told. He was on a business trip, and paid for a massage in his room. He’s a big guy, and was probably 60 when he told this story. The massage therapist was a tiny elderly woman. As she was finishing the massage she offered him sex for additional money, and he turned her down. And, he says, maybe he turned her down a little too hard. Maybe he even laughed at the suggestion, or made some reference to her age. She did just a little more work on his back, and left. The next day he could barely get out of bed. She had taken revenge for being dissed. So… There are definitely elderly massage workers who also do sex work. Well, at least that one, and i presume others. That being said > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I guess what I’m getting at is, speculation aside, what’s the actual evidence that there were ever any “happy ending massages” at these locations? I wonder if there’s just as assumption that Asian massage therapists are sex workers. Or that all massage therapists are sex workers. My SIL used to work as a massage therapist, and she picked her locations where she’d work very carefully because a lot of male clients assume that any massage therapist is also a sex workers. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/88 "2021-03-21T14:08:20Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > This surprises me. At this age is it safe to assume that the women, if they are sex workers, are not trafficked, just working there as , well, work? How about both? They are trapped in the life, there is no retirement plan. The older ones keep the younger ones in check because they too were indocronated from a very young age. The real pimps are in the home country. Controlling their families. Massage is like any other business in the sense that there are high and low end places. You can get Prime Rib or McDonalds and every option in between. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/89 "2021-03-21T17:37:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I wonder if there’s just as assumption that Asian massage therapists are sex workers. Or that all massage therapists are sex workers. Around here, I would say the assumption is that if it’s Asian, it is reasonably likely to be connected with the sex industry; if it’s Eastern European it’s also quite plausible to be connected with sex work; with all else, probably just straight-up massage. But if you’re into that sort of thing, you would ask around or consult internet resources. (I have never partaken in any adult massages, but I have been curious enough years ago to look up and find out which places near me supposedly offer adult services and which don’t. Most did not, but as you headed into other parts of town, more and more did.) ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/90 "2021-03-21T19:15:20Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > How about both? I don’t know, that’s why I asked the guy who is familiar with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/91 "2021-03-23T02:21:30Z")
Time to move onto the next mass killing, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/92 "2021-03-23T03:08:04Z")
wow they let me read the whole thing …. how sad …… i think she jumped or fell …… though ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065/93 "2021-03-23T17:37:56Z")
Oh, I know. I used to be friends of friends with someone who was a stripper at Augies in downtown Minneapolis in the 1980s. None of the “girls” at Augies were young. As I said, bless them… But you could as easily describe this women as grandmotherly as describing them as sex workers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlanta-massage-parlor-shootings-white-perp-apparently-asian-victims/938065.md?page=4)