# Atlantis. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082 "2004-03-02T07:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Willmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Willmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willmore)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/1 "2004-03-02T07:42:08Z")
I’m thinking of writing an original story (novel) about Atlantis … yeah, I’m having a tough time of coming up with original things, but that’s not the point. I want to know if there were some obscure, out of the way stories, beyond the more well-popularized ones of Plato and the “super-dooper-ultra-cool” civilization ones. Or if there was something in Plato, that hasn’t been well-publicised ? If there were any mentions to it before Plato ? And finally, if there has been any mention of a “far-off” people in the mythology, or folklore of ancient egypt, celtic lore, or maybe even in Asia, or the American Indians, central american in particular ? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/2 "2004-03-02T12:00:49Z")
There aren’t any mentions of it before Plato – the story of Atlantis as we have it seems to have startted with his writings, which seem to be a fable he made up. There are those who claim that he based his story on real elements, citing the story of Santorini/Thera, or something even more esoteric. The best overall reference on this is L. Sprague deCamp’s book **Lost Continents** , which includes a hefty list of references. “Madame” Blavatsky and her Theosophists made a lot of claims for Atlantean super-science (I think they originated that idea), which seems to have captured the popular imagination. Ignatius Donelly , a Midwestern Senator and all-round interesting nut, wrote a book in which he claimed that Atlantis really was a co0ntinent, located where the Mid-Atlantic Ridge now is. Plato never claimed the Atlanteans had lost science, but it’s now an inextricable part of the story. See the 1960 George Pal film **Atlantis…the Lost Continent** (Which was based on a 19th century play that I haven’t been able to locate), or Disney’s more recent **Atlantis the Lost Empire**. I can see the appeal of a romantic “lost continent” and “lost Civilization” with “Lost Science”, but it doesn’t seem to have much, if any, basis in reality. Write your own story from scratch, or from Plato, and make up your own traditions instead of copying from Donnelly and Blavatsky. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/3 "2004-03-02T13:10:31Z")
> [@Willmore](#): > > … mythology, or folklore of ancient egypt, celtic lore, or maybe even in Asia, or the American Indians, central american in particular ? Hmm - I have a dim notion that there was _some_ idea of Atlantis being just west of Aberystwyth, Cardigan Bay/Irish Sea, but only dim right now, and I msut go out soon. There were, anyway, Celtic myths of the Land of Youth/Tir nan Og. Oh, and legends of buried towns in the sea west of Wales - I’m thinking _perhaps_ near Barmouth. Bah - sorryI am kind of thinking out loud jsut right now - bit of a hurry. However, I am pretty sure I have a book relating to the lost towns/cities legend of Wales. Or I did once - I wonder where it is. I will really try to find and come back to this. Should you be moved to go Googling, I think the phrase for the lost town - the “Bottoms Hundreds” is “Cantref Gwaelod” but my memory may not be 100% accurate there. By way of light relief, I recall a removal company in Aberystwyth, west Wales, called “Atlantis Overseas Removals”. 🙂 Well, dashing off, and hoping to return. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/4 "2004-03-02T13:14:50Z")
There was no mention of “Atlantis” before Plato–he is the first mention, ever. There are many and varied “mysterious land” myths and stories, but none of them really match Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/5 "2004-03-02T13:37:04Z")
I know this doesn’t exactly pertain to the OP, buuuut . . . I’ve read in a few books that Atlantis may be the island of Crete. A few years ago, I read a lot about both Crete and Atlantis, and it seemed to fit pretty well. Better than other things I read. The only book I can remember dealing with the issue is The Chalice and the Blade by Riane Eisler. I don’t know what folks on this board think of her, but I found it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/6 "2004-03-02T14:10:58Z")
There’s a Roleplaying Game called \*GURPS \* out there. I know, I know, you’re recoiling in horror, but bear with me. The _GURPS_ folks put out generic supplements with all kinds of information culled form many sources, so that one could buy, for example, _GURPS Time Travel_, and run a Time Travel-themed game. They have a sourcebook called \*GURPS Atlantis \* that may be worth looking at. The _GURPS_ books tend to be nicely-researched, and often have suggested reading lists, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/7 "2004-03-02T14:20:00Z")
Well there’s a theory that Antarctica was Atlantis. Due to loading of ice at the polar caps there built up a huge amount of stress between the mantle and the crust. This led to a catastrophic slipping of the crust twisting the location of everywhere. Atlantis wound up at the bottom of the earth and promptly got snowed under. Colonies had been set up South America, and Egypt and those preserved the legend and knowledge of Atlantis Check Graham Hancock’s Fingerprints of the Gods. ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/8 "2004-03-02T16:22:38Z")
Weren’t some underwater ruins discovered recently on Crete? I did a Google search but didn’t find anything. The Antarctica theory is clearly total BS. Antarctica was in habitable latitudes at the time of the dinosaurs, but certainly not since humans have been around. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/9 "2004-03-02T16:35:00Z")
No one said it was a good theory. Besides, arguing about the “truth” of a fable is GD territory. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/10 "2004-03-02T17:16:06Z")
Amazingly, [Lost Continents](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486226689/qid=1078246617/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-7148845-8679237?v=glance&s=books) is still readily available, even after three decades. Good to know that the true classics survive. What other works to recommend depend on what information you want to have. I’ve researched extensively in ancient civilizations so that I could set fantasy stories there. No only do I pick up the small details that make a story come alive but I’ve also come across settings and incidences that are too good not to include, even if only background. If your novel will go into the realms of the nutcase literature - and plenty of novels have mined these - I can’t help you. But if you want to set your book in something resembling real history, [Unearthing Atlantis: : An Archaeological Odyssey to the Fabled Lost Civilization, by Charles R. Pellegrino](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380810441/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/002-7148845-8679237?v=glance&s=books&st=*) looks at the evidence that the Minoan empire launched the legend. I haven’t read it, and from what I’ve heard I can’t wholeheartedly recommend it as a book, but for research into the subject it appears to have much to offer. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/11 "2004-03-02T17:33:39Z")
Discovery Channel ran a special within the last ten years about the search for Atlantis. Some researcher on there was of the opinion that a phrase in Plato that has traditionally been translated along the lines “Atlantis was larger than Libya and Asia Minor” should have been translated “Atlantis was in between Libya and Asia Minor.” (Or perhaps Plato has been passed on correctly, but the description had already been adulterated before it reached him). That is, if you draw a line from the heart of Classic Libya to the heart of Classic Asia Minor, you will find the location of Atlantis. This person located an small island (size restrictions having been removed by the re-translation) roughly in between the two regions that seems to fit some physical descriptions of Plato: concentric rings (or their remains) connected by bridges. There apparently is evidence there of a civilization that may have been decades ahead of Athens at the time of its destruction. Being a television special, it of course did not include citations to published works, so I don’t know how valid any of this is, but it was interesting. And no, I don’t recall the name of the special or of the researcher. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/12 "2004-03-02T23:33:54Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > There was no mention of “Atlantis” before Plato–he is the first mention, ever. There are many and varied “mysterious land” myths and stories, but none of them really match Atlantis. At least that we are aware of. Not that I believe Plato’s story was anything but an imaginative attempt to make a point or that he was describing a real place(unless a bastadized tale about the fall of the Minoeans), but there are a lot of ancient writings we don’t have access to. Hell, the epic of giglamesh(at least the 10 year old translation I read) is incomplete and I’m sure there’s many works we don’t even know about which predate the greeks. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/13 "2004-03-02T23:36:22Z")
> [@FriendRob](#): > > Weren’t some underwater ruins discovered recently on Crete? I did a Google search but didn’t find anything. > > The Antarctica theory is clearly total BS. Antarctica was in habitable latitudes at the time of the dinosaurs, but certainly not since humans have been around. Because Atlantis/Antartica was obviously inhabited by the Old Ones millions fo year ago. There are still a few Shoggoths running around down there, IIRC. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/14 "2004-03-02T23:53:47Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Amazingly, [Lost Continents](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486226689/qid=1078246617/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-7148845-8679237?v=glance&s=books) is still readily available, even after three decades. Good to know that the true classics survive. That’s the wonder of Dover Publications for you. For that matter, they even have Donnelly’s [Atlantis, the Antediluvian World](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486233715/qid=1078271172/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-2683417-4889759?v=glance&s=books) in print. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/15 "2004-03-03T00:29:45Z")
Read The Silmarillion By JRR Tolkien. In it you will learn of Numenor, land of the the Edain, the High Men of the West. They were beloved by the Powers, for their bravery in fighting at the side of the Eldar against the great enemy, Morgoth. They were given the land of Numenor in the middle of the great sea as a gift, a reward for their valor. And they were given great knowledge and long life. But they fell into evil, many of them, after centuries. When they dared to do battle against the powers, their land was cast down into the sea and was after known as **Atalantë** , or “the downfallen” in the tongue of the Eldar. A few loyal Numenorians escaped, including Elendil and is son Isildur. Aragorn was descended from the first king of Numenor. All gone rather myffic, really. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Willmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Willmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willmore)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/16 "2004-03-03T01:36:10Z")
thanks a lot for all the info. I’ve heard of the crete theory before, in a weird place actually - there was an indiana jones game Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, if I’m not mistaken, anyway, they had atlantis on the isle of crete. In any case, I’m not gonna go there. Also, my book will be strictly fiction, and will mention Atlantis only at the start (I hope), so that I will be able to concentrate on thr main characters more, and not on the exhaustive research, which will still come mostly from my imagination 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/17 "2004-03-03T01:42:43Z")
I remember reading De Camp’s book a couple years back. Really a facinating book for anyone interested in the subject. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/18 "2004-03-03T01:53:23Z")
[QUOTE=Willmore] thanks a lot for all the info. I’ve heard of the crete theory before, in a weird place actually - there was an indiana jones game Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, if I’m not mistaken, anyway, they had atlantis on the isle of crete. [\QUOTE] I thought the greater colony was on Crete and Atlantis was between Thera and Crete? ---
**Author:** ![Willmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Willmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willmore)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/19 "2004-03-03T02:42:24Z")
might’ve been, not 100% sure. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082/20 "2004-03-03T20:14:54Z")
Most information I’ve read states that Plato learned about Atlantis from the Egyptians. Yet, everybody seems to be stating that Plato made the story up. According to this site, the story was ‘given by Egyptian priests’: “Plato claims he acquired his knowledge of the myth of Atlantis from ancient Egypt. Spyridon Marinatos, the leading contributor of mythology of Atlantis, states that Plato could not possibly have invented a story such as this on his own and that the Egyptians did indeed have a tale of a “supremely happy island which later became submerged and vanished.” This story was extremely familiar to most Egyptians at that time, and Egyptian mythologies all contain a reference to this tale (Ellis 233, 236). Critias even states in his dialogue to Socrates that this story of the lost continent “was once given by the Egyptian priests” (Plato 232).” [http://www.auburn.edu/~downejm/sp/epsaas/epsaasEgypt.html](http://www.auburn.edu/~downejm/sp/epsaas/epsaasEgypt.html) Is this backed up by any other evidence/texts? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlantis/232082.md?page=2)