# Atlas Slapped... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951 "2002-11-02T02:47:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/21 "2002-11-02T21:33:02Z")
I also seem to prove **DrFidelius** ’ theory. I read _The Fountainhead_ and _Atlas Shrugged_ when I was 18 and loved them. I thought they were wonderfully idealistic. I tried re-reading them later, after I graduated college, and found them complete bunk. As **JThunder** said: > [@](#): > > **know the difference between selfishness and self-interest, and between altruism and fascism.** To be moderately fair, though, I think the main fault of Rand’s two _opii_ (opuses doesn’t sound right) is that she tried to do way too much with them. Her shorter, simpler novels _We the Living_ and _Anthem_ are far better. Still not among my favorites, but much better than _The Fountainhead_ and _Atlas Shrugged_. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/22 "2002-11-03T00:04:41Z")
Let me tell you those who are only one-third of the way through will love the way Dagny lost her virginnity (Not!!) ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/23 "2002-11-03T01:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > **…I think the main fault of Rand’s two _opii_ (opuses doesn’t sound right)…** The plural of _opus_ is _opera_. No, really. And I couldn’t stand “Atlas Shrugged” either. I did manage to finish it, but it promptly went on the “utopias that look great on paper” pile. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/24 "2002-11-03T01:55:18Z")
Dagny wasn’t a virgin-what are you talking about? Before the book even started, it was already established she was boinking every millionaire superman she met. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/25 "2002-11-03T07:02:41Z")
I just finished reading Atlas Shrugged tonight. Far as I can tell, the answer to “who is John Galt” is a pitiless, square-jawed hunk o’ fuelless motor-making manmeat. I also noticed the annoying tendency of all the hyper-competent, productive egoists to speak “tonelessly” whenever engaged in an act of industrial martyrdom (i.e., explaining how they are going to fix something that the hateful looters have messed up), and the fact that all the liberal, humanitarian villains in the story were described as having poor posture, weak chins, doughy features, etc…as if these are the true marks of Cain. And what the heck was up with the utterly preposterous ending? John Galt being rescued from an incompetently soundproofed torture chamber by a gun-wielding, cold-blooded-murdering Dagny…aauugh…there’s just so much that’s irritating about the book, I don’t know why I felt driven to read the whole bleeping thing. I just had to see the complete face of evil, I guess. One last oddity that bugged me - the tendency of all the characters to speak in these long, forced, philosophical orations. Real industrialists do not go around talking like the people in Atlas Shrugged! And it is simply wrong to assert that the world has, or ever could, depend on the activities of a man known as Hank. Oh God, that I could simply forget the whole thing… ---
**Author:** ![boomvark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@boomvark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boomvark)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/26 "2002-11-03T08:55:40Z")
A hijack for a hijack, I guess … > [@](#): > > **jackelope** > Minor hijack: Has anyone else noticed the correlation between Ayn Rand fans and fans of Rush (the band, not Limbaugh)? Neil Peart(sp?), the drummer for Rush who writes most (if not all) of their lyrics, was heavily influenced by Ayn Rand at one point. On one of their late 70s or early 80s albums (_2112_, IIRC) he went so far as to acknowledge her “wisdom” in the liner notes. That philosophical dalliance didn’t last forever. Sometime in the mid to late 90s, the subject came up in an interview he did with _Liberty_ magazine (I read it, but can’t provide a cite right at the moment). Seems that somewhere along the line he’d read a rant where the Profitess made some over-the-top nasty comments about rock music in general and Woodstock in particular. This got him thinking, which ultimately led him to conclude that–paraphrasing here–she had her head up her ass. ---
**Author:** ![Leifsmama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a698b9/32.png) [@Leifsmama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leifsmama)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/27 "2002-11-03T15:53:29Z")
I’ve read a couple of these “Ayn Rand, evil empress” threads now and I really don’t see what’s so horrible that she inspires such hate. Granted, I’ve only read The Fountainhead and it didn’t inspire me to read anything else. I didn’t like it. I didn’t hate it. I didn’t really get it, I guess. Sure the characters are flat and unreal and act in a bizzare fashion, but I’ve read worse, or at least as bad. What makes makes Ayn Rand such a lightening rod for personal hatred? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/28 "2002-11-03T17:35:42Z")
**Leifsmania** , if that, or even _Atlas Snored_ were all we had for reference, she would not go past being another unexplainably popular bestselling author with an overbombastic style who believed she had come upon some univeral truth everyone else was missing and that supported her political POV. However a lot of the vitriol against AR comes in reaction to (in no particular order): (a) _character_ issues, in a personal sense; (b) ideological dispute over her _political_ philosophy; © ideological dispute over her _moral_ philosopy; (d) the Cult that assembled among her followers, with at least her acquiescence, and the conduct and ideology of said Cult. As mentioned before, there are many threads about this that you may search in the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Leifsmama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a698b9/32.png) [@Leifsmama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leifsmama)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/29 "2002-11-03T17:43:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\ ***Leifsmania** , if that, or even _Atlas Snored_ were all we had… \*\* Umm…you misspelled my user name by accident, right? ---
**Author:** ![da\_pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@da\_pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/da_pope)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/30 "2002-11-03T22:28:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by boomvark \* > \*\*A hijack for a hijack, I guess … > > Neil Peart(sp?), the drummer for Rush who writes most (if not all) of their lyrics, was heavily influenced by Ayn Rand at one point. On one of their late 70s or early 80s albums (_2112_, IIRC) he went so far as to acknowledge her “wisdom” in the liner notes. > > That philosophical dalliance didn’t last forever. Sometime in the mid to late 90s, the subject came up in an interview he did with _Liberty_ magazine (I read it, but can’t provide a cite right at the moment). Seems that somewhere along the line he’d read a rant where the Profitess made some over-the-top nasty comments about rock music in general and Woodstock in particular. This got him thinking, which ultimately led him to conclude that–paraphrasing here–she had her head up her ass. \*\* Actually, the album ‘2112’ is a ‘rock opera’ loosely based on Anthem. Instead of a light bulb, the protagonist finds a guitar. Mayhem ensues as our hero tries to convince the elders of the wonderful sounds the guitar can make. I personally think it falls apart right after ‘Temples of Syrinx’, and prefer side 2. Still, highly regarded as classic era Rush. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/31 "2002-11-03T23:39:58Z")
Sorry about that **Leifs~** , I could have sworn I rechecked… ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/32 "2002-11-04T00:24:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Popular book + politically slanted message = lots of rants from those not sharing that political viewpoint. I’m a fiscal conservative/ self-identifying Republican/ dedicated capitalist and I think her books are crap. They’re boring. And they’re not very well written. Plus they’re boring. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/33 "2002-11-04T02:01:58Z")
I kinda enjoyed _The Fountainhead_ I don’t think I will be adopting it as my religion any time soon, but I enjoyed it. I may someday get around to _Atlas_ but it isn’t high on my list. Just my .02. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/34 "2002-11-04T03:20:38Z")
I still say, do a search of **Guin** reads Ayn Rand! ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/35 "2002-11-04T06:51:53Z")
Guin, I seem to recall Dagny’s losing her virginity to Francisco Whathisname at some tender young age. Something about how them both loving the gold standard made it that much hotter. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/36 "2002-11-04T14:28:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*and the fact that all the liberal, humanitarian villains in the story were described as having poor posture, weak chins, doughy features, etc…as if these are the true marks of Cain. \*\* I always found it funny that the industrialists have these manly names like Hank Reardon, Francisco d’ Aconia and John Galt, but the liberals are Wesley Mouch, Claude Slagenhop & Bertram Scudder (my apologies to anyone named Mouch, Slagenhop or Scudder). I have not one, but two friends who wear “Who Is John Galt” t-shirts. I always like to point out to them that the book had two, count them, two ray guns in it, and of course I make the comparisons of Rand’s corporate leaders to today’s Enrons & Microsofts (If Bill Gates were Hank Reardon, his steel would be incompatable with any other kind of steel and crash twice a day). And, if you can make it through Galt’s speech, you can make it through anything! ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/37 "2002-11-05T15:47:51Z")
Hmm. I’ve read _The Fountainhead_. I didn’t like it. I’m trying to decide if I want to suffer through _Atlas_ as well. I think I’ve already told the story (in another thread about Ayn Rand) of how my mom threw her copy of _Fountain_ into the middle of the Atlantic ocean. I can read something I don’t agree with, and enjoy it, as long as the writing is decent. From my (admittedly limited) experience, Rand’s writing is really pretty bad, and I didn’t find any of her characters believable. I think she oversimplifies people and political systems. I do wonder what we’re supposed to do with all the poor jerks (like me) not born with utter vision, unlimited talent, and supreme self-confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Politzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@Politzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Politzania)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/38 "2002-11-05T19:50:43Z")
I read _Atlas Shrugged_ & _The Fountainhead_ my senior year of high school at the urging of a friend (and yes, she’s still my friend!) When I asked her what the book was about - she said the plot wasn’t important. She was pretty much right. Looking back {mumblety} years later, I agree that Rand’s shorter works are the better reads. I have most of Rand’s books (even the non-fiction :eek:) in second-hand paperbacks - it may be time to pass them on to a new generation 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/39 "2002-11-05T20:23:57Z")
The only thing I didn’t like about the book was abandoning Eddie. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951/40 "2002-11-05T21:31:48Z")
Thanks for the Rand-Rush clarifications, **boomvark** and **da\_pope**. I had no idea there was an actual link there, and always thought it strange that, in my experience, so many people into one were into the other as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atlas-slapped/134951.md?page=3)