# ATM or ATM Machine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648 "2006-05-13T16:21:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/21 "2006-05-14T00:47:54Z")
I think that the meaning of SCUBA has changed from an acronym to a word, which is now an adjective. If you said “I’m going to go buy some SCUBA”, you would face an odd look at the least and possibly a misunderstanding too. Everyone understands what “ATM” and “PIN” mean, though. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/22 "2006-05-14T01:04:14Z")
I vote for “go ahead and say it”. Why not? We insist on saying “deja vu all over again”. Remember the arguement (here) over pluralizing “WMD”? It’s a lively language, and I like it that way. So shut up. Cut the mike. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/23 "2006-05-14T01:05:26Z")
Subscribe ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/24 "2006-05-14T01:06:36Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Why not? We insist on saying “deja vu all over again”. That’s a reference to a Yogi Berra quote, so cut the crap and the mic. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/25 "2006-05-14T01:07:51Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > If, apropos of nothing, you say “I think I’ve forgotten my PIN”, you could be talking about a range of different things - needlework, engineering, etc - but calling it ‘PIN number’, despite the redundancy, is unambiguous and still easier than saying ‘personal identification number’ - which is rather too many syllables. I agree with this. Acronyms that get too precise lose acronym value and become defacto words. I have nothing to add to the debate and was not going to post, but then I realized that in the spirit of the thread we needed more redundancy in replies. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/26 "2006-05-14T01:12:13Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > It’s all around us, really, from SWAT teams SWAT is Special Weapons And Tactics, adding teams at the end is not redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/27 "2006-05-14T03:04:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > SWAT is Special Weapons And Tactics, adding teams at the end is not redundant. So it does. Thank you for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/28 "2006-05-14T03:06:53Z")
Ah, here’s why I thought it was redundant: it used to mean [Special Weapons Assault Team](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAT). Clearly my sources are just outdated! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/29 "2006-05-14T03:22:39Z")
Computer Programmers, who are usually very nitpicky about exactness (they have to be, professionally) have been talking about the COBOL language for nearly 50 years. But the last L in COBOL is for Language, so this is another such redundancy. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/30 "2006-05-14T04:05:06Z")
TCBY yogurt? ---
**Author:** ![RockoSoBe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@RockoSoBe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RockoSoBe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/31 "2006-05-14T04:08:31Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > I agree with this. Acronyms that get too precise lose acronym value and become defacto words. I have nothing to add to the debate and was not going to post, but then I realized that in the spirit of the thread we needed more redundancy in replies. I understand what you’re saying but PIN is a word as well as an acronym. What else could you interpret , “ATM” as? Don’t forget the original thread as trivial as it may be. Think before you speak…don’t be a sheep! ---
**Author:** ![RockoSoBe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@RockoSoBe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RockoSoBe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/32 "2006-05-14T04:09:58Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The phenomenon is known as RAS syndrome (which stands for Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome). > > I think it’s because certain acronyms and abbreviations are _too_ concise - they achieve brevity at the expense of clarity. > If, apropos of nothing, you say “I think I’ve forgotten my PIN”, you could be talking about a range of different things - needlework, engineering, etc - but calling it ‘PIN number’, despite the redundancy, is unambiguous and still easier than saying ‘personal identification number’ - which is rather too many syllables. RAS syndrome. LOL ---
**Author:** ![RockoSoBe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@RockoSoBe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RockoSoBe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/33 "2006-05-14T04:12:35Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Can I call it an ATM teller machine? 😉 > > I never liked the term “SCUBA gear” because then you’re really calling it “self-contained underwater breathing apparatus gear” and the “gear” seems redundant. Yeah, Automated Teller Machine Machine makes a lot more sense. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Otanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Otanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otanx)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/34 "2006-05-14T04:43:37Z")
I always say “ATM machine” as it seperates it from the “ATM switch” that I work on. I don’t think my friends would be confused if I stopped, but it is the way it is. -Otanx ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/35 "2006-05-14T05:16:22Z")
> [@RockoSoBe](#): > > Call me stupid, but I’ve found that most Americans use this acronym improperly in a sentence. An ATM is obviously defined as an Automatic or Automated Teller Machine. So why do most people refer to an ATM as an ATM machine??? I think an even more interesting point is that ATM machines have been around for 20-25 years and people are still amazed that people say “ATM machines.” Right now, this very second, there is a child being born, who once he learns the nuances of the English language, is going to make the statement “Hey, wait a minute, you know what? Did ya ever notice that some people are saying ATM machine, isn’t that redundant?!” 🙂 Of course, this is coming from a guy (me) who once asked the question “Why do some English rock stars seem to sing with an American accent?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/36 "2006-05-14T08:00:39Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > I can see where “PIN number” can be useful, but what else can “ATM” mean in general use other than Automated Teller Machine? There are other meanings for it, sure, but they’re all occupationally specific and easily differentiated based on context; you don’t need to hear the word “machine” to know whether someone’s talking about banking, air traffic control, amateur telescope making, pornography, biology, chemistry or an airport. Where I work, we maintain communication to **A** utomated\*\* T\*\*eller **M** achines, and some of them communicate to ops centers using **A** synchronous **T** ransfer **M** ode… and it still pisses me off when people say ATM machine 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/37 "2006-05-14T08:17:10Z")
…and oops, sorry **Otanx** , missed your post. I am essentially referring to the same thing Otanx is. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/38 "2006-05-14T08:54:43Z")
Don’t forget BTK Killer. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/39 "2006-05-14T13:05:27Z")
Well not that I am big on grammar, but the use of ATM, SCUBA and the like can be used as a adjective, which modifies a noun. It helps to define what type of machine or gear if you are using the term as a single part of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648/40 "2006-05-14T16:08:33Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Computer Programmers… have been talking about the COBOL language for nearly 50 years. True. But it’s fair to note that usage is much more often along the lines of “Look at this COBOL program” than “Look at this COBOL language program.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/atm-or-atm-machine/356648.md?page=3)