# Attack on Quebec mosque **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581 "2017-01-30T12:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/41 "2017-01-31T05:12:45Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I just read a CBC account of the shooting. Witnesses told the CBC that the shooters were yelling (what else) “Allahu Akbar!” > > Which means this anti-Muslim hate crime was likely carried out by other Muslims. > > If so, this incident doesn’t reflect badly on Canada at all- just on people like Justin Trudeau who raced to blame white Islamophobic bigots. Do you ever get tired of repeating fake news? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/42 "2017-01-31T05:21:30Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I just read a CBC account of the shooting. Witnesses told the CBC that the shooters were yelling (what else) “Allahu Akbar!” > > Which means this anti-Muslim hate crime was likely carried out by other Muslims. > > If so, this incident doesn’t reflect badly on Canada at all- just on people like Justin Trudeau who raced to blame white Islamophobic bigots. Right, because news outlets always have more reliable information than, you know, the leader of the country, to whom the RCMP reports, and who will also be informed of what’s happening by the Premier of Quebec, to whom the Sûreté du Québec reports. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/43 "2017-01-31T07:14:06Z")
Well, isn’t this special! Trump’s official head of the Ministry of Truth has a few words to say about the apparent alt-right white nationalist Isamophobe in the mold of Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, and Trump himself, the one who barged into a Quebec City mosque and killed Muslims at prayer in one of the most horrific mass killings in Canadian history. Sean Spicer, Trump’s liar-in-chief, first made famous by declaring how yyuuuuge the crowds were at his boss’s inauguration – just the yyuuuugest crowds ever, much bigger than Obama’s crowds – has now combined Orwellian alternative facts with Stalinist duplicity and the integrity of Joseph Goebbels. “[This is why we have to be vigilant](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/white-house-spicer-que-mosque-comments-1.3959338)”, he claims, citing the Muslim killings in Quebec _ **in support of** _ the Muslim ban that has outraged the world and emboldened bigots and terrorists. The only way I can parse the logic is that I suppose if you ban Muslims, then you won’t have Muslims around that you have to kill. To the mentality of Trump supporters, this probably makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/44 "2017-01-31T09:22:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The only way I can parse the logic is that I suppose if you ban Muslims, then you won’t have Muslims around that you have to kill. To the mentality of Trump supporters, this probably makes sense. Or he fell for the rumor that two Syrian refugees had been arrested for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/45 "2017-01-31T13:16:43Z")
If the White House can’t determine fact from tweet then this amateur hour administration is an insult to amateurs. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/46 "2017-01-31T13:45:41Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Or he fell for the rumor that two Syrian refugees had been arrested for the crime. You misspelled “alternative fact.” ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/47 "2017-01-31T15:37:29Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I just read a CBC account of the shooting. Witnesses told the CBC that the shooters were yelling (what else) “Allahu Akbar!” The witnesses if they indeed reported this obviously confused the shouting of the attendees with the attacker - and of course as I have noted many times, for the native Arabic speaker to shout Allahu akbar under stress is not in any way different than the anglophones who swear “Jesus christ” under stress, it says not one thing about the religious affiliation of the person or their ideology. But I do note the usual typical bigot hate cites are promoting this incorrect story very widely. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/48 "2017-01-31T15:43:21Z")
I read about an American White supremist who quickly began trolling our Prime Minister on twitter. “Refugees welcome!#Quebec City” Literally while there was still a manhunt on! These people suddenly feel emboldened, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/49 "2017-01-31T16:38:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The witnesses if they indeed reported this obviously confused the shouting of the attendees with the attacker - and of course as I have noted many times, for the native Arabic speaker to shout Allahu akbar under stress is not in any way different than the anglophones who swear “Jesus christ” under stress, it says not one thing about the religious affiliation of the person or their ideology. > > But I do note the usual typical bigot hate cites are promoting this incorrect story very widely. Huh. I didn’t know that about “Allahu akbar” being used as an exclamation like “Jesus Christ”. It makes sense, but I just never thought about it. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/50 "2017-01-31T17:27:37Z")
Yes, thanks **Ramira**. I value your comments on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/51 "2017-01-31T18:00:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Right, because news outlets always have more reliable information than, you know, the leader of the country, to whom the RCMP reports, and who will also be informed of what’s happening by the Premier of Quebec, to whom the Sûreté du Québec reports. Just a note - to Americans, when you say the information came from the leader of the country, it doesn’t immediately make us think “reliable”. We’re a little jaded down here. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/52 "2017-01-31T18:05:58Z")
maybe I should clarify to not be too simple, Allah akbar or La illah ila Allah and similar can act like your expressions in stress like saying “Good God!” or “Jesus Christ” as a kind of swear. It is cultural and I refer to the native arabic speakers, although I would suppose be true in cases like Pakistan where such phrases are also embedded in the usual national language. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/53 "2017-01-31T18:06:40Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Huh. I didn’t know that about “Allahu akbar” being used as an exclamation like “Jesus Christ”. It makes sense, but I just never thought about it. Thanks for that. We say “Jesus Christ!” when we step in dog shit. When getting shot at in a church, we might say “oh God!” or something, but more likely, “oh fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/54 "2017-01-31T20:27:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > We say “Jesus Christ!” when we step in dog shit. When getting shot at in a church, we might say “oh God!” or something, but more likely, “oh fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!” But English Elizabethans would swear with “G-d’s B-lls!”. Cooler than the other examples. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/55 "2017-01-31T20:39:16Z")
“Allahu Akbar” is also something an Islamophobic murderer might shout at his victims to taunt them, or to draw a comparison between his murders and those of Islamist radicals. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/56 "2017-01-31T23:26:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Just a note - to Americans, when you say the information came from the leader of the country, it doesn’t immediately make us think “reliable”. We’re a little jaded down here. And you would be correct ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/57 "2017-02-01T01:31:04Z")
The PMO’s office [called out](http://www.macleans.ca/politics/trudeaus-office-takes-aim-at-fox-news-over-tweet/) Fox’s president (news functions) for “dishonour[ing] the memory of the six victims and their families by spreading misinformation, playing identity politics, and perpetuating fear and division within our communities.” Fox took their alternate facts down. Well done Ms. Purchase! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/58 "2017-02-01T06:58:04Z")
Here’s an [excerpt from the CBC](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-alexandre-bissonnette-profile-1.3959581) > [@](#): > > Bissonnette appeared to enjoy discussing politics with select classmates at university. Jean-Michel Allard Prus, who took a politics class with Bissonnette, said they often debated with each other on Facebook. > > In these debates, Bissonnette expressed fairly mainstream conservative views. A hunter, he opposed gun control and was pro-Israel, but otherwise didn’t bring up more divisive issues such as Muslims or immigration. > > But that was a year ago. > > “I think … something happened. He radicalized a lot,” Prus said. “He seemed just a normal right-wing individual.” > > As Bissonnette began to espouse more radical views, he stopped interacting with his fellow students. He took part in at least one informal discussion group, but quickly found its members too moderate and stopped attending. > > “He was not interested by our politics meeting because we are conservative and moderate right wing,” said Éric Debroise, a Laval University student and member of the discussion group. “He is more far-right or alt-right.” > > Debroise described Bissonnette as nice but anti-social. In their meetings, he said, Bissonnette often spoke admiringly of U.S. President Donald Trump and the French far-right politician Marine Le Pen. > > Trump enjoys the support of the alt-right, a loosely defined political movement that includes white nationalists and white supremacists. > > The alt-right is known, too, for its army of online trolls who circulate racist memes and virulent attacks on perceived opponents. > > Within activist circles in Quebec City, Bissonnette has been considered an extremist troll in his own right. > > In a Facebook post, a refugee support group said Bissonnette is “known to several activists in Quebec City for his pro-Le Pen and anti-feminist positions.” > > The group said Bissonnette is fond of using the term “feminazi” — alt-right slang for those who advocate women’s rights. Notice he went from conservative to whack job as Trump captivated America. The sooner you dump Trump, the sooner you will have fewer Bissonnettes incited and empowered by Trump. Trump is not just a fascist. He is a stochastic terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/59 "2017-02-01T07:15:05Z")
By the way, where are all the alleged “moderate” right-wingers denouncing and disavowing this murderous extremist? I thought whenever a violent ideological extremist commits a terrorist attack, it’s supposed to be incumbent on the non-extremists to speak up and say this person doesn’t speak for them. Well, conservatives? I think it’s time we started expecting moderate conservatives to step up and start cleaning their house of their radical “alt-right” faction. Tell them that while the law protects their right to free speech, you don’t support their bigoted incitements to violence and hatred. Stop supporting organizations and events that also legitimate and encourage these extremists. After all, if it’s supposed to be the responsibility of nonviolent Muslims to shut down the violent extremists among them, then it’s only reasonable to expect the same of nonviolent conservatives. Not every conservative is a white-nationalist terrorist, of course, but all white-nationalist terrorists are conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581/60 "2017-02-01T08:08:52Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > maybe I should clarify to not be too simple, Allah akbar or La illah ila Allah and similar can act like your expressions in stress like saying “Good God!” or “Jesus Christ” as a kind of swear. Yeah, you’re talking about what I call “mystical moments”. A mystical moment is when someone sees something horrible and exclaims “oh my God!” or similar, even though that person may be an atheist or whatever. It’s not so much either blasphemy or prayer as a general expression of distress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-on-quebec-mosque/778581.md?page=4)