# "Attack the post, not the poster" should be removed as a rule **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 29, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924 "2022-03-29T17:46:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/41 "2022-03-30T13:50:08Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > pass off a “left-handed” insult As a Sinister-American, I find that language to be hurtful, besides, the phrase is “left-handed compliment”. Anyway, to the point of the thread, I think I am about 78% in agreement with the OP. I do see discussions get heated, and barely concealed insults get thrown about, under the guise of “attacking the post, not the poster”. However, I would not necessarily change the rule, simply change its interpretation slightly. Being hostile is being a jerk, but there is a whole lot of hostility that goes on that flies under the radar. I’ve tried reporting it in the past, but it is considered unactionable. The only way to respond to a post is with hostility of one’s own, or to bow out of the thread. After having received no mod notes, but apparently had been flagged, I got warned, with those flags, but not a single mod note, as the precedent for it. I simply felt I was giving as good as I got, returning the hostility directed at myself, which is _never_ modded in kind. Apparently I was wrong and copped myself a warning for crossing a line that I felt others had crossed, been reported, and nothing happened, on a regular basis(I am _not_ disputing this warning, I admit I crossed a line). I had stopped reporting such hostility long ago, as it was never acted upon, and after the warning, tried for a bit to calibrate where the mods draw the line, but have given up again, as being told that “Butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth” and reporting it only had the action of a mod saying that defining Socialism was a hijack to the thread. Pretty much, the unmoderated hostility of GD and P&E is the main reason I stay out of such threads anymore. People impugn nefarious motives or comment on the mental state of other posters all the time without sanction. Characterizing an argument as “bullshit” is still pretty hostile, but it pales in comparison to much of the other stuff that goes on that is considered to be acceptable. I _like_ discussing things dispassionately. There are very few topics that I get worked up about, very few things that, on their own, make me angry or upset. The _method_ that some posters choose to discuss these topics, OTOH, sometimes does. You can be passionate without being hostile. There are science or space based threads that I would actually characterize myself as quite passionate about, and those are the threads where others who are passionate about the topic come to discuss it with very little, if any hostility. There was a fair amount of passion expressed by a number of posters in a recent thread about knives and their care, and yet _no_ hostility. TL;DR, the interpretation of the “Don’t be a jerk” rule should be updated to include hostility as jerkish behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/42 "2022-03-30T13:51:34Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > “Attack the post, not the poster” is fine, but is only necessary, and not sufficient, to avoid breaking the rules. That is, attacking the post, not the poster, does not let one ignore other rules, like “don’t be a jerk”. If you’re being a jerk while attacking the post, you’re breaking the rules. This is, I think, the most important point in this thread. Attacking a post can be jerkish, but attacking a poster always is jerkish. The “attack the post, not the poster” bit is advice for how to follow the #1 rule. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/43 "2022-03-30T13:55:31Z")
The other thing–and I know the free-speech absolutists are going to have a field day with this–is that not all opinions should be equal in the eyes of a private messageboard. While the US government can’t meaningfully distinguish between “transwomen are women” and “transwomen are men” as expressed opinions, the board 100% can. And if someone is hostile to the second, that’s way more understandable than someone’s hostility to the first. We don’t need content-neutral moderation. In several areas we already don’t have content-neutral moderation, the lauded “thrice-told tales.” That’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/44 "2022-03-30T13:59:44Z")
Tangentially, I wonder how much of my perception is colored by outsized reactions to mod notes. I often see posters treating them - and arguing against them - as if they were warnings. Can moderators choose different highlight colors when posting in “mod mode?” It wouldn’t happen overnight, but using the current gentle color for guidance and a harsher one for WARNINGS would, over time, lessen the emotional impact of the former. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/45 "2022-03-30T14:03:41Z")
We really only have one color available. There is a ~~pink~~ and green background but they’re just html code and display differently in different themes and even browsers. We have fairly limited tools. So we have an _add staff color_ tool or _add staff note_ like I just did above. To some degree I try to use the staff note as the extra gentle note I guess, but I never really thought of it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/46 "2022-03-30T14:16:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We don’t need content-neutral moderation. Since this thread has touched the topic of which I dare not speak, I shall leave it in the moderators capable hands. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/47 "2022-03-30T14:23:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As a Sinister-American, I find that language to be hurtful, besides, the phrase is “left-handed compliment”. Yes! LOL So, if a “left-handed compliment” is a disguised insult, would a “left-handed insult” actually be a compliment? 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/48 "2022-03-30T14:52:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As a Sinister-American, I find that language to be hurtful, besides, the phrase is “left-handed compliment Huh, and I’ve only heard “back-handed compliment.” I guess the PC police must’ve gotten to it and sanitized it on behalf of your fellow Sinistrians. Thanks Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/49 "2022-03-30T15:16:03Z")
Yes–not trying at all to drag a different issue to the thread, and thanks, WE, for the note. Any other example would equally work. The board doesn’t need to treat opinions that deny essential humanity as the same as opinions that don’t deny essential humanity. And yes, that’s 100% a judgment call, and no, we don’t need to debate specific scenarios in this thread, and yes, I think the mods should be making that judgment call. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/50 "2022-04-02T19:59:06Z")
Disagree with the OP’s postion. Even if the rule can be seen as just an example of “don’t be a jerk”, it’s a nice explanation of what “don’t be a jerk” means in that particular situation. And the mods have demonstrated that they know what to do when someone is playing silly buggers to get around it. There was an example of that just a few days ago, although I can’t find it right now. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/51 "2022-04-03T16:30:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And the mods have demonstrated that they know what to do when someone is playing silly buggers to get around it. Right. We’ve had these discussions in the past and the rule is not hyperliterally enforced. For example, if I said that a post had a sort of dickheadedness quality to it and that the post contained a hint of assholishness, then that transparent attempt will be seen. I think the rule serves a valid purpose because it promotes civil discourse. Everyone is capable of making a bad argument and shouldn’t take offense when the post is attacked. When you are attacked personally that says that everything about you is wrong and you want to start a flame war. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/52 "2022-04-03T16:37:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Also, one line in the NPA policy on Wikipedia that’s useful, “Comment on _content_ , not on the _contributor_ .” I really like that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/53 "2022-04-03T16:49:57Z")
I do too. Using the language of “attack” in a guideline raises the temperature level rather than lowers it; says that certain types of attacks are acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/54 "2022-04-05T00:17:56Z")
Meh, “attack” has been used metaphorically for a long time, especially in regards to an argument, and most pointedly in our profession. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/55 "2022-04-05T00:20:32Z")
Quite ignoring that (although I agree with @Northern_Piper ), “comment on content” is better guidance than to comment on the post. I’ve seen too many nasty posts about typos, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/56 "2022-04-05T00:23:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve seen too many nasty posts about typos, for instance. I think attacks on typos are an attack on the poster, e.g. “You’re so stupid, you can’t spell right!” Everyone here has typos. This isn’t a legal brief to the Supreme Court. This is a message board. If I leave out a word, then so what? I don’t proof my posts. So, in a way, those comments are personal attacks because of their pettiness. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/57 "2022-04-05T00:32:55Z")
“comment on content” is very direct, and says exactly what needs to be said, though. I mean, I’m not saying the world will change if we change our wording, but it’s better than our older statement. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/58 "2022-04-05T00:47:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Meh, “attack” has been used metaphorically for a long time _Of course_ we are talking about metaphors. Nobody is physically assaulting people on the forums. Why would you even bother to mention this? I can’t think of a more redundant point to make in this thread. It’s the **metaphorical** attacks that are the entire subject of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/59 "2022-04-05T00:51:04Z")
My response was to @Northern_Piper who objected to the word “attack” because he says it “raises the temperature.” The sentiment is the same whether we call the aggressive post a comment or an attack. Simply calling it an attack, as you have so forcefully pointed out, attacking my post :), means nothing as we are not using the word “attack” in that fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924/60 "2022-04-05T02:55:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The sentiment is the same whether we call the aggressive post a comment or an attack. I vehemently disagree. It’s not in any way the same. **Words matter.** Especially on a message board, where words are everything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-not-the-poster-should-be-removed-as-a-rule/961924.md?page=4)