# Attempts to influence America's election from abroad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209 "2004-10-20T13:38:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/21 "2004-10-24T03:18:18Z")
Holy fracking mother of all newspapers — did _The Guardian_ just seem to call for assignation of our President? Are these jackasses joking or is there and element of seriousness there? > [@](#): > > …On November 2, the entire civilised world will be praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod’s law dictates he’ll probably win, thereby disproving the existence of God once and for all. The world will endure four more years of idiocy, arrogance and unwarranted bloodshed, with no benevolent deity to watch over and save us. **John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr - where are you now that we need you?** [http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1333748,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1333748,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/22 "2004-10-24T03:22:26Z")
\*assassination ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/23 "2004-10-24T03:24:16Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > \*assassination I liked assignation better. 😃 New whisper campaign: Bush has been boinking Condi! ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/24 "2004-10-24T03:28:50Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > I liked assignation better. 😃 > > New whisper campaign: Bush has been boinking Condi! Ummm - Maybe _The Guardian_ will take them both out — but first the warning - bed and bloody horse head style - ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/25 "2004-10-24T04:45:47Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Holy fracking mother of all newspapers — did _The Guardian_ just seem to call for assignation of our President? Are these jackasses joking or is there and element of seriousness there? > > [http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1333748,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1333748,00.html) The offending quote comes from the entertainment section of the Guardian, and is from a lightweight TV critic. A previous column by the same critic ends as follows, which should indicate the degree of weight to give to such a column: “The performance artists are up their own arses. But at least they’re not up other people’s, like these two crotch-sniffing hags.” [http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,14669,1307200,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,14669,1307200,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/26 "2004-10-24T04:51:04Z")
The “Entertainment Section?” – OK, I suppose they’re just witless jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/27 "2004-10-24T05:26:27Z")
> [@Eolbo](#): > > The offending quote comes from the entertainment section of the Guardian, and is from a lightweight TV critic. Sure, but _The Guardian_ still saw fit to print it, no? They could have excerisized unprecented editorial powers and said something like, ‘Well, maybe no articles calling for the assassination of the President’ or something, but they chose to include the article. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/28 "2004-10-24T09:57:09Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Sure, but _The Guardian_ still saw fit to print it, no? They could have excerisized unprecented editorial powers and said something like, ‘Well, maybe no articles calling for the assassination of the President’ or something, but they chose to include the article. Of course, many poetential assassins take their cue from the Guardian’ TV column, so there’s a very real chance that this comment could be taken seriously. Oh, wait you do think it was serious :wally ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/29 "2004-10-24T10:00:52Z")
Whoops, confused at too which forum I was in. I would like to withdraw the putz smilie from my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/30 "2004-10-24T10:08:33Z")
The guy who made the assassination comment is Charlie Brooker, a _humorist_ who is exceptionally foul-mouthed and angry. His calls for assassination or for people to drop dead are extended towards lots of people, most of them British. [This is his site](http://www.tvgohome.com/) for context (SFW but full of foul language). People who read his column already know this about him. You’re reading too much into it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/31 "2004-10-24T10:32:11Z")
Here’s another Charlie Brooker project - [Unnovations](http://www.zeppotron.com/unnovations/index.html) - a catalogue of horrible, useless, or disturbing inventions, of which my favourite is the [Baker Infuriating Hat](http://www.zeppotron.com/unnovations/bakers_hat.html). Genius. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/32 "2004-10-24T11:04:20Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > People who read his column already know this about him. You’re reading too much into it. Ah, it was a lighthearted, wistful even, call for assassination. Silly me. :rolleyes: _The Guardian_ chose to print it, and even if it is a case of ‘journalistic’ (if said word can even be applied to _The Guardian_) trolling rather than a proper fatwah, it is incredibly inappropriate. > [@Avenger](#): > > Whoops, confused at too which forum I was in. Ya, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/33 "2004-10-24T11:11:31Z")
This illustrates one of the problems with online versions of print media, by the way. The article on screen appears different than it would tucked away in its proper place in the little pullout bit in the centre of the Guardian that, when I buy the paper, I don’t usually bother reading. In other words, nowhere near the serious news and certainly nowhere near the editorial or serious opinion. It also illustrates one of the problems in allowing Americans access to British humour… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/34 "2004-10-24T11:27:06Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Ah, it was a lighthearted, wistful even, call for assassination. Silly me. :rolleyes: No, a “foul-mouthed and angry” call for assassination, as I said. > [@](#): > > _The Guardian_ chose to print it, and even if it is a case of ‘journalistic’ (if said word can even be applied to _The Guardian_) trolling rather than a proper fatwah, it is incredibly inappropriate. It would only be trolling _if it was meant to be taken seriously_. It isn’t. One might conclude that anyone who chooses to take it as serious ‘journalistic’ political comment, especially after having been told that it isn’t, is being deliberately obtuse. Sure, criticise it, but criticise it for what it _is_, not what it _isn’t_. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/35 "2004-10-24T14:39:49Z")
Ah yes, I suppose somee here are right, that IS “humor.” The sort found in most top rate newspapers like _The Guardian_ ----- I’m certain lots of Americans will just ‘bust a gut’ if given a chance to read this new Oscar Wilde of British humor. Hey, here’s a thought — maybe Charlie Booker, the article’s author, might hire a Jeffery Dahmer type to baby-sit his kids. Then write about that and the resulting 28 packages of frozen irony. Spaghetti anyone? Now THAT’S humor!! No wait – THAT’s _extremely_ bad taste - ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/36 "2004-10-24T14:48:15Z")
I have no problem in people finding Brooker unfunny and in poor taste. The boundaries of humour and taste are subjective - see Billy Connolly’s comments about Ken Bigley. I do, however, object to people pretending what he writes is an example of Guardian journalism, and getting up on their high horses about it. For comparison, here’s Charlie Brooker on British soccer fans (spoilered due to extremely bad language and violent content): Do you like football? Do you like discussing football? Do you visit pubs to watch football on a big floppy screen? Do you sit in train carriages reading the Sun sports section, looking for all the world like a bloated, flabby-armed pig who’s somehow learned to read? Have you ever stopped to think about what a thick cunt you’re being? You really are, you know; you’re a big thick cunt. A big, thick boring fucking cunt. Here’s an idea: next time you’re tempted to start yet another boring fucking conversation about boring fucking football, why don’t you poke one of your eyes out with your thumb instead? And then really scrape around the back of the socket with your thumbnail? With any luck it’ll shock your thick cunt boring fucking football-liking fucking friends into discussing something more pressing than football for once – they could talk about calling an ambulance, say, or maybe just hold an impormptu debate about whether the eye you just pushed out of your head was still able to send visual signals to your brain as it oozed down your cheek. Or maybe they’ll stand around grunting about football, as usual. There are plenty of examples of idiotic Guardian partisanship, such as the letter-writing campaign of the OP, but this isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/37 "2004-10-24T20:10:12Z")
I COULD trash the Guardian and its writers, but that would be too easy. Instead of calling them all kinds of names, I’ll simply ask: what makes them think their appeals could POSSIBLY have a positive impact on “swing” voters? A “swing” voter, by definition, sees pluses and minuses to voting for either Bush or Kerry. in Ohio, such a voter might be… a) A religious, patriotic blue-collar worker who agrees with Bush on most of the social issues, but worries about his job and the state of the economy, and thinks Kerry might be better for his pocketbook. b) A suburban businessman who’s liberal on most of the social issues (his wife is on the local Planned Parenthood Board, and his daughter volunteers for Greenpeace), but who likes low taxes. c) A housewife who thinks Kerry would be better for the economy and the environment, but who wants a strong leader like George W. Bush to protect our national security. Now, Democrats in America are working very hard to push people like these over to their side, and Republicans are trying to do the same. We’ll see in November which side does better. But does ANYONE at the Guardian think ANY of the people I’ve described would be favorably impressed by an appeal from them? NO!!! And it’s not just because Americans in general resent advice from abroad. It’s because all three of the sterotypical “swing” voters I’ve described would find the Guardian a repulsive publication! The smug, antireligious nature of the Guardian would make it anathema to voters A & C, while the Guardian’s Bolshevik economic stances would make it repugnant to Voter B! In short, an appeal from the Guardian, of all publications, would not only fail to sway swing voters to Kerry’s side, it would almost assuredly push them to Bush’s. There may be people who can present those swing voters with cogent reasons to vote for Kerry, but the idea that Richard Dawkins or someone like him could do it is so STUPID… well, it’s such a stupid notion that only an intellectual could have taken it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/38 "2004-10-24T20:17:32Z")
The _real_ bottom-line question, of course, is who in the U.S. is reading _The Guardian_? I’d be quite astonished if more than a few thousand citizens ever even see it. So, what’s printed in there is a non-issue when it comes to the U.S. election. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/39 "2004-10-24T20:27:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The smug, antireligious nature of the Guardian would make it anathema to voters A & C, while the Guardian’s Bolshevik economic stances would make it repugnant to Voter B! 😕 Bolshevik? Either you’ve never read the Guardian, or you have no idea what a Bolshevik is. I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything antireligious either, care to enlighten us? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209/40 "2004-10-24T20:42:56Z")
It is some measure of my view of the Guardian that one of the first things I read is the Corrections and Clarifications column to see what they’ve screwed up recently. Busiest Corrections Editor in the biz, or so they claim. If they didn’t have the best arts jobs listing in the Monday papers, I’d never buy the rag. Mind you, it’s not like any of the other papers are worth reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-influence-americas-election-from-abroad/270209.md?page=3)