# Attempts to make safe alternatives to dangerous products that have backfired. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580 "2013-06-09T20:02:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/61 "2013-06-13T18:24:12Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > There is constant debate about how safety devices make the user act more recklessly, and end up causing more injuries or deaths - e.g. motorcycle helmets. It’s extremely hard to prove it conclusively though. And it doesn’t help that these arguments usually come from people who are opposed to those safety devices for idealistic or personal reasons. > > (And please, let’s not have that debate here, at least take it to GD if you must.) I just read a book about sailing alone across the Atlantic. The author did not use a safety line while working on deck. He said _fear_ is what kept him on board, a safety line would make him careless. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/62 "2013-06-13T18:40:15Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Environmentalists have advocated for people to use reusable shopping bags. Hey great, less plastic and paper headed for the landfill, it’s all good, right? Wrong. Studies are now showing that [contamination of reusable bags with bacteria is resulting in an increase of foodborne illness.](http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-green-bacteria-in-shopping-bags,0,4837500.story) Yes, well, who cares about people getting sick as long as the environment is cleaner? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/63 "2013-06-13T20:41:34Z")
I will also add ‘child-proof’ caps on medicine. Adults felt more comfortable leaving their medication out and more children were poisoned than before ‘child proof’ caps were introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/64 "2013-06-14T18:33:41Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > I just read a book about sailing alone across the Atlantic. The author did not use a safety line while working on deck. He said _fear_ is what kept him on board, a safety line would make him careless. “Fear” won’t keep rogue waves from forming. > [@Werekoala](#): > > Yes, well, who cares about people getting sick as long as the environment is cleaner? 🙂 They’re not getting sick from the existence of the bags, they’re getting sick from people’s bad habits (which could theoretically be changed just like we got them to change habits to use the bags in the first place). Anyway, sick from bacteria = stronger immune system! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/65 "2013-06-14T18:51:51Z")
bacteria killing soap = stronger bacteria ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/66 "2013-06-14T21:45:29Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > bacteria killing soap = stronger bacteria Regular soap does not lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria. Antibacterial soap and cleaning products may. I trust the best path is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/67 "2013-06-14T21:58:13Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I spoke to a Ford engineer who proposed (I think it’s an old idea) that the best safety addition to a car would be exposed razor blades affixed to the dashboard. Well, steering columns used to be designed such that they would impale unfortunate drivers in a car accident. Not razor blades, granted, but having a freaking _spear_ on the dash didn’t seem to do much for safety. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/68 "2013-06-14T22:12:14Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Heroin was originally marketed as a safe, nonaddicting substitute for morphine. So was demerol. > > Methadone as a treatment for heroin addiction actually makes some sense, given the vastly different half-lives and degrees of positive reinforcement due to the relative amount of euphoria each delivers. Heroin makes most opioid addicts extremely, extremely euphoric for short periods of time, setting up the next use quickly. Methadone makes most opioid addicts rather mellow for a long time, postponing the next use and making it somewhat less urgent. Interesting. I always wondered how that worked. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > There are even papers now reporting that it is likely that lead was a big factor on the crime waves of the recent past, and the continuous reduction of violent crime nowadays is due to the removal of lead from fuels. How so? Does lead poisoning increase aggression or something? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/69 "2013-06-20T20:10:42Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Interesting. I always wondered how that worked. > > How so? Does lead poisoning increase aggression or something? Well, it degrades one’s capacity for impulse control. I’m sure there are plenty of perfectly mellow people with lead poisoning - but if you’ve got a temper, lead poisoning will do you no favors. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/70 "2013-06-20T20:30:04Z")
Not a dangerous product in the first place, but the original whole-cell pertussis part of the DTP vaccine was replaced by an acellular pertussis vaccine, that uses only parts of the antigenic material. This was to reduce the side effects of the DTP (which were pretty small to begin with, but vaccine developers always want fewer side effects). The result was a vaccine that seems to provide protect that [wanes faster than anticipated.](http://pediatrics.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2012/912/1) This waning protection (requiring earlier boosters than previous versions of the vaccine), along with the vaccine denialists who refuse vaccines, has contributed to pertussis outbreaks. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/71 "2013-06-20T21:05:55Z")
> [@](#): > > In the coming decades, there were reports about complications from the whole-cell pertussis vaccine. This was not surprising: while whole-cell vaccines can be both effective and safe, their use of the actual contagion as opposed to an isolated component mean they are among the crudest of all vaccines. The whole-cell pertussis vaccine could cause febrile seizures, high fevers, and even fainting — reactions which are understandably scary for parents but which typically have no long-term effects. (My younger sister ran an extremely high fever after her first DPT injection, which she received in the late 1970s.) There were also unconfirmed reports — of brain damage, comas, even paralysis — which to this day have never been verified. [http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2012/09/13/the-whole-cell-pertussis-vaccine-media-malpractice-and-the-long-term-effects-of-avoiding-difficult-conversations/](http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2012/09/13/the-whole-cell-pertussis-vaccine-media-malpractice-and-the-long-term-effects-of-avoiding-difficult-conversations/) Sometimes a safer vaccine is worth the higher risk of getting a disease that probably won’t kill. We will never know of course. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/72 "2013-06-20T21:26:17Z")
While I agree that safer vaccines are always better, your own quote shows that the whole-cell pertussis vaccine was already safe, and my point that creating an acellular version actually contributed to pertussis outbreaks (that have involved deaths) stands. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/73 "2013-06-21T00:29:59Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > While I agree that safer vaccines are always better, your own quote shows that the whole-cell pertussis vaccine was already safe, and my point that creating an acellular version actually contributed to pertussis outbreaks (that have involved deaths) stands. They normally mix pertussis vaccine with tetanus vaccine these days. If I get my recommended tetanus booster jab every ten years, with pertussis in the mix, is that good enough to reliably keep my pertussis immunity up? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/74 "2013-06-21T02:26:25Z")
That’s an excellent question. > **[Duration of Immunity Against Pertussis After Natural... : The Pediatric...](https://journals.lww.com/pidj/Fulltext/2005/05001/Duration_of_Immunity_Against_Pertussis_After.11.as)** > > published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4–20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4–12 years. Further research into the rate of waning of... ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/75 "2013-06-21T02:31:41Z")
Red-light cameras. They bring in revenue like slot machines and increase rear-end collisions under the rubric of increased safety. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/76 "2013-06-25T12:22:50Z")
Oh, I’ve just en **counter** ed one: Kitchen appliances with power cords so ridiculously short (to avoid people tripping on them) that you have to use an extension cord every time. In my case, it’s a vacuum sealer. A coworker of mine often points out that, since it’s now illegal here to hold a cell phone to your ear while driving, people tend to text more because it’s not visible from outside the car. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580/77 "2013-06-25T17:21:53Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > Oh, I’ve just en **counter** ed one: > > Kitchen appliances with power cords so ridiculously short (to avoid people tripping on them) that you have to use an extension cord every time. In my case, it’s a vacuum sealer. in maybe the past half century electrical codes and practices (USA) tend to being within three feet of a receptacle on a kitchen counter. the cords also in more recent time have been being made heavier. a long or thin code is more easily damaged and then an electrocution hazard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attempts-to-make-safe-alternatives-to-dangerous-products-that-have-backfired/660580.md?page=3)