# Attention anti health-care reformers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/1 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")
So I come home from the store and turn the channel to CNN for a few minutes were I learn that we might just be hours away from a health-care reform bill. They show part of a speech from Nancy Pelosi praising the bill, and then a little bit of a speech from some Republican denouncing it with the same old tired argument that we’ll be taking away the ability of doctors to make decisions. To this, I have one thing to say **STOP SAYING THAT!!!** First of all, the doctor can prescribe whatever drugs or treatment he or she wants and a government run health-care plan may or may not pay for it. **THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS UNDER PRIVATELY RUN INSURANCE!!!** I have some concerns about health-care reform, and I believe that there are legitimate criticisms, but I hate it when people use lies to try and defeat a bill. Oh, and since this is the pit, fuck, shit, damn, hell, and ass. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/2 "2009-11-08T00:27:48Z")
They’re afraid that the government plan will become mandatory or drive private health insurance plans out of business, and then the government plan won’t approve treatments that private plans would have approved. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/3 "2009-11-08T00:51:47Z")
They have, and will continue to, say any crazy thing that they think will scare their base and get people angry. The reason is, the health care bill was the only thing they focused on for the last six months, it’s defeat was their #1 legislative agenda, and they are going to fail. Remember when Jim DeMint said “If we’re able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him.” And they’ve failed. Before they said these things because they thought it would derail the bill. They’ll continue to say these things to deflect attention from their utter failure. Losers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/4 "2009-11-08T01:06:33Z")
Your puny powers of logic are NOTHING compared with the awesome might of their stupidity! but you have to admit, it does sound a bit better than “my constituents want freedom” when asked how many people are without health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/5 "2009-11-08T01:13:55Z")
If this is freedom, if this is how freedom is defined, than I shit on freedom.They should be careful what they conflate. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/6 "2009-11-08T01:14:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Your puny powers of logic are NOTHING compared with the awesome might of their stupidity! Well, seeing how health-care reform might be passed today, it looks like their stupidity isn’t all that mighty. > [@](#): > > but you have to admit, it does sound a bit better than “my constituents want freedom” when asked how many people are without health insurance. True. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/7 "2009-11-08T01:16:58Z")
I’m against it because I don’t believe the federal government has the authority to have any involvement in healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/8 "2009-11-08T01:20:15Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m against it because I don’t believe the federal government has the authority to have any involvement in healthcare. I’ve never heard that argument before. What do you base it on? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/9 "2009-11-08T01:35:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m against it because I don’t believe the federal government has the authority to have any involvement in healthcare. How do you define health care? If the government has a duty to protect us from foreign attacks, and the attackers are using biologic weapons, then is the government providing health care? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/10 "2009-11-08T01:42:12Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So I come home from the store and turn the channel to CNN for a few minutes were I learn that we might just be hours away from a health-care reform bill. They show part of a speech from Nancy Pelosi praising the bill, and then a little bit of a speech from some Republican denouncing it with the same old tired argument that we’ll be taking away the ability of doctors to make decisions. To this, I have one thing to say > > **STOP SAYING THAT!!!** > > First of all, the doctor can prescribe whatever drugs or treatment he or she wants and a government run health-care plan may or may not pay for it. > > **THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS UNDER PRIVATELY RUN INSURANCE!!!** > > I have some concerns about health-care reform, and I believe that there are legitimate criticisms, but I hate it when people use lies to try and defeat a bill. > > Oh, and since this is the pit, fuck, shit, damn, hell, and ass. Oh look, trolling. In giant fonts, even. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/11 "2009-11-08T01:46:21Z")
Silly OP, where did you miss the part where the pubbies’ interests are not those of the American public at large? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/12 "2009-11-08T01:50:06Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’ve never heard that argument before. What do you base it on? The Tenth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/13 "2009-11-08T02:03:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Oh look, trolling. In giant fonts, even. Nice. :dubious: Care to back up those words? My understanding of a troll is somebody who says things they don’t believe in order to get a reaction. Let’s look at my OP: Fact - There are people who say that health-care reform will interfere with a doctor’s ability to treat his or her patients. Fact - It is my opinion that this is bullshit. Fact - One of the reasons for the Pit is to rant about what upsets you, and this particular anti health-care reform argument upsets me. So nothing I have said is bullshit, and I didn’t just say it for a reaction. So if you’re going to accuse me of being a troll, either put up, or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/14 "2009-11-08T02:13:09Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So nothing I have said is bullshit, and I didn’t just say it for a reaction. Yes you did, hence the font size. How old are you? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/15 "2009-11-08T02:17:41Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’ve never heard that argument before. What do you base it on? I already asked him before, he pulled that argument out of his ass. 70+ years of Medicare and not a single successful challenge to the supreme court against the idea that the federal government has no authority on a plan. “The federal government has the authority to legislate a health insurance mandate under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.” [http://www.law.georgetown.edu/oneillinstitute/projects/reform/Individual\_Mandates.html](http://www.law.georgetown.edu/oneillinstitute/projects/reform/Individual_Mandates.html) ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/16 "2009-11-08T02:21:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The Tenth Amendment. Ah. I agree that, if health insurance companies functioned largely to the benefit of their participants, then leaving the specifics of legislation to the individual states would be preferable. But, these companies have a long and large track record of being complete assholes. And not just statistical not-every-plan-works-for-every-case assholes, but manipulative, back-peddling jerks of the highest order. The states have been in a position to tweak this for a long time and have gotten no where meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/17 "2009-11-08T02:23:09Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Yes you did, hence the font size. How old are you? He did say “shit”, he never said “bullshit”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/18 "2009-11-08T02:45:29Z")
> [@Pullet](#): > > Ah. > > I agree that, if health insurance companies functioned largely to the benefit of their participants, then leaving the specifics of legislation to the individual states would be preferable. But, these companies have a long and large track record of being complete assholes. And not just statistical not-every-plan-works-for-every-case assholes, but manipulative, back-peddling jerks of the highest order. The states have been in a position to tweak this for a long time and have gotten no where meaningful. This is why there is all this talk about allowing states to opt out. Of course then the people in the opt-out states will find out that they are ruled by guys that agree with the assholes. It seems to me that those politicians do know how stupid they will look if they opt-out, it will look like the spectacle of the republican governors refusing stimulus money only to have the state congress critters (even in conservative states!) ignoring the governors. US Republican congresscriters will do and say very underhanded things to stop the reform, they already know that later confronting and justifying their opt-out position to the people that are suffering under the current system will be political suicide as they will demonstrating that they never represented the people, they only represented one kind of people: the health care insurers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/19 "2009-11-08T02:47:21Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Oh look, trolling. In giant fonts, even. Nice. Did something in the OP give you some reason to believe that the OP doesn’t believe what he posted, and posted it merely to provoke a negative reaction from you (or anybody else)? Care to share it with us? On preview: Font size? I tend to think of that as a frustrated scream intended to convey a point that the screamer felt was insufficiently conveyed at more conventional decibel levels. Trying to get attention paid to an assertion is decidedly NOT the same as trying to provoke a negative reaction. Try again. Or better yet, don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/20 "2009-11-08T03:09:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > This is why there is all this talk about allowing states to opt out. Of course then the people in the opt-out states will find out that they are ruled by guys that agree with the assholes. > > It seems to me that those politicians do know how stupid they will look if they opt-out, it will look like the spectacle of the republican governors refusing stimulus money only to have the state congress critters (even in conservative states!) ignoring the governors. US Republican congresscriters will do and say very underhanded things to stop the reform, they already know that later confronting and justifying their opt-out position to the people that are suffering under the current system will be political suicide as they will demonstrating that they never represented the people, they only represented one kind of people: the health care insurers. You’re right. Either they stop the legislation now, or all the various compromises just make them look like bigger weasel jerks later. Can’t say I have a lot of sympathy for them, though. They dug this shit hole and now all of us are having to wallow in it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=2)