# Attention anti health-care reformers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/281 "2009-11-15T01:14:12Z")
Thank you for letting everyone know the correct forum to post in, Jr. Mod. ---
**Author:** ![coyote2009](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@coyote2009](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coyote2009)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/282 "2009-11-15T01:15:14Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > …my ideas could be full of shit… It appears your insight is improving. Time will prove just how poorly the government will manage health care. Ever had a problem with the IRS, and it was their fault? Do you have any idea how long it takes to get past all the idiot bureaucrats until the problem is straightened out? I do. It took about 8 months in my case. Eventually a “Taxpayer Advocate” intervened and fixed the problem. She even apologized for their stupidity. In the meantime, they were holding several thousand dollars that belonged to me. Now imagine what happens when they screw up your diagnosis, MRI, medication. I did not say “if” they screw up, I said “when” they screw up, because they will. That is what bureaucracies do. So, instead of not having access to several thousand dollars of your own money, your health care and treatment will be delayed. For IRS errors, they pay interest on their screw ups. There is no equivalent for delaying your treatment. In the meantime the cancer/infection/progressive disease will eat away at your body, destroying your health permanently. As far as able-bodied people who won’t get a job and health benefits, screw 'em. Let them rot. They made their own choices and I do not think highly of paying for their health care so they can continue to take street drugs, burglarize my car and home and have the nerve to ask me for any “ **extra change** ” on the sidewalks downtown when I do to and from my job where I earn the money to pay for their medical bills. The idiot in office promised you your “ **change**.” Get it from him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/283 "2009-11-15T01:26:38Z")
Where do they come from? How do they find us? Does this happen to horticulture message boards, its a random incidence of rightard, like cosmic rays? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/284 "2009-11-15T01:48:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thank you for letting everyone know the correct forum to post in, Jr. Mod. It’s not Jr. Modding, at all. It’s expressing my (negative) opinion about another post. Which is what the Pit is FOR. Not for the RO of the day/week/year. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/285 "2009-11-15T02:03:23Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > It’s not Jr. Modding, at all. It’s expressing my (negative) opinion about another post. > > Which is what the Pit is FOR. Not for the RO of the day/week/year. More Jr. Modding. 0 for 2. Care to try for strike 3? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/286 "2009-11-15T02:13:03Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > More Jr. Modding. > > 0 for 2. Care to try for strike 3? So you’re Jr. Jr. Modding? This is the place for beefs with other posters. It’s in the forum description. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/287 "2009-11-15T02:32:22Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > So you’re Jr. Jr. Modding? > > This is the place for beefs with other posters. It’s in the forum description. > [@](#): > > **For rants about the world** or beefs with another poster. Comments and complaints about SDMB administration should go in About This Message Board. :rolleyes: Why don’t you go and join [ivn1188](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539342) if you have such a big problem with “RO”, instead of your constant threadshitting? Either that or shut the fuck up already. “insert **Guin** is jobless and lives with her parents insult here” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/288 "2009-11-15T02:36:26Z")
**Guin** , ‘the world’ means ‘U.S.A’ Anything not in the U.S.A. doesn’t exist. Unless we’re bombing it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/289 "2009-11-15T02:38:34Z")
> [@coyote2009](#): > > As far as able-bodied people who won’t get a job and health benefits, screw 'em. Let them rot. With that attitude, why should I care if you have to pay more taxes? No skin off my nose if you are bled dry. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/290 "2009-11-15T02:48:49Z")
> [@coyote2009](#): > > It appears your insight is improving. > > Time will prove just how poorly the government will manage health care. > > Ever had a problem with the IRS, and it was their fault? Do you have any idea how long it takes to get past all the idiot bureaucrats until the problem is straightened out? > > I do. > > It took about 8 months in my case. Eventually a “Taxpayer Advocate” intervened and fixed the problem. She even apologized for their stupidity. In the meantime, they were holding several thousand dollars that belonged to me. > > Now imagine what happens when they screw up your diagnosis, MRI, medication. > > I did not say “if” they screw up, I said “when” they screw up, because they will. That is what bureaucracies do. > > So, instead of not having access to several thousand dollars of your own money, your health care and treatment will be delayed. > > For IRS errors, they pay interest on their screw ups. > > There is no equivalent for delaying your treatment. In the meantime the cancer/infection/progressive disease will eat away at your body, destroying your health permanently. > > As far as able-bodied people who won’t get a job and health benefits, screw 'em. Let them rot. They made their own choices and I do not think highly of paying for their health care so they can continue to take street drugs, burglarize my car and home and have the nerve to ask me for any “ **extra change** ” on the sidewalks downtown when I do to and from my job where I earn the money to pay for their medical bills. The idiot in office promised you your “ **change**.” > > Get it from him. Your complaint has nothing to do with what I was saying. Let me try again. 1. I believe that with Obama in the White House and a Democratically controlled Congress, reform will happen despite any opposition. 2. Under our current system we have Social Security for senior and disabled people, and private insurance for the rest of us (I’m aware that I am slightly oversimplifying things, and I’m not counting the VA for veterans). 3. So far it’s looking like the kind of reform that’s going to occur is that everybody will be required to buy insurance and companies will be forced to sell. And anybody who can’t afford a private insurer will buy from a public option. And those who can’t afford to pay out of their own pockets will be subsidized. 4. I’m saying that if that is the kind of reform that passes Congress and is signed into law by Obama, then why not have everybody participate? I mean, either way, the disabled and elderly will be in government run plans, so your complaint about government run plans makes no sense because I’m not talking about putting people in private plans onto a public plan, I’m talking about moving people on one kind of government plan onto another, or even onto a private one if they can afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/291 "2009-11-15T03:25:23Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So far it’s looking like the kind of reform that’s going to occur is that everybody will be required to buy insurance and companies will be forced to sell. This is the problem, right here. Required to buy? Forced to sell? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/292 "2009-11-15T03:28:29Z")
The best thing, which you are all forgetting, is the punctual and diligent retractions of those shown to be wrong. Whatever the topic, once the evidence is in and there is no longer any reasonable basis for argument, an orderly legion of posts appears to discuss how several and diverse posters came to be so very wrong in their predictions. Remember the WMD discussions of old? The confessions that it was not the lack of intellect or of information that led people to error. Rather it was a frank exercise of bad character. It will be just the same with UHC. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/293 "2009-11-15T03:33:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > This is the problem, right here. Required to buy? Forced to sell? Frankly I’m not to crazy about that method either, but it seems like that’s how it’s going to be, regardless of what anybody thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/294 "2009-11-15T03:51:48Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Frankly I’m not to crazy about that method either, but it seems like that’s how it’s going to be, regardless of what anybody thinks. Maybe so. But it’s not going to work. It never has. Even the “Red Chinese” are getting over a command economy. Who else thinks this is a good idea? Fidel & Raul? Hugo? Oh yeah, Obama. Sucks to be us, then. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/295 "2009-11-15T03:57:55Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > This is the problem, right here. Required to buy? Forced to sell? How’s that free market working for us, healthcare-wise? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/296 "2009-11-15T04:00:44Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Who else thinks this is a good idea? Fidel & Raul? Hugo? Because anything but the American system is _ **Socialist!!!111one** _ What are you? _ **Communist?** _ You want to turn America into _ **The Soviet Union** _ or _ **North Korea!!!** _ :mad::mad::mad: LALALALALA! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/297 "2009-11-15T04:12:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How’s that free market working for us, healthcare-wise? Just fine, thanks. Get a job, get insurance from your employer, or pay for it yourself. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeasy. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/298 "2009-11-15T04:18:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Because anything but the American system is \*\*\*[color=red]Socialist!!! Do the Canadian, British, Swedish, etc. systems require the purchase of insurance, and the forced sale of same? I dunno, I’m asking, but I kinda doubt it. For heaven’s sake, Obama’s trying to make it worse than socialist, if such is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/299 "2009-11-15T04:20:54Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Do the Canadian, British, Swedish, etc. systems require the purchase of insurance, and the forced sale of same? I dunno, I’m asking, but I kinda doubt it. For heaven’s sake, Obama’s trying to make it worse than socialist, if such is possible. in canada they do you can’t opt out because there is no private delivery of healthcare services. doctors are “forced” to sell their labor to the provincial health ministries, and taxpayers (unless they are unemployed) are “forced” to purchase their health insurance through taxation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/300 "2009-11-15T04:21:27Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Just fine, thanks. Get a job, get insurance from your employer, or pay for it yourself. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeasy. Not so fast, Man Hands. I am one of the entrepreneurs the free market touts so highly. I am 55, have been 100% self employed since 2002, and I have pre-existing conditions including testicular cancer and a perforated ulcer. I cannot buy health insurance at any price. I guess that makes me a bad person because I want a public option. Why are the insurance companies against this? They don’t want me anyway! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=16)