# Attention anti health-care reformers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/361 "2009-11-15T06:31:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Don’t want to pay taxes? Go live in a cabin somewhere. Just don’t use the roads and other infrastructure the rest of us are paying for. Lamest, stupidest, argument ever. How does “roads” justify confiscatory tax rates on some, but not on others? Shouldn’t everyone pay the same? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/362 "2009-11-15T06:32:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I know this will be difficult for you, but don’t be stupid. There isn’t such a right, and you would know it, if only you’d be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/363 "2009-11-15T06:35:23Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Lamest, stupidest, argument ever. How does “roads” justify confiscatory tax rates on some, but not on others? Shouldn’t everyone pay the same? I’ve never driven in New York, and yet part of my taxes go to maintain the Interstate system there. I don’t have kids, and yet part of my taxes pay for their education. My house has never burned down, and yet part of my taxes go to the fire department. You see, We the People banded together for our common good. We are made to pay for things because they are to our benefit and to the benefit of the country. You can complain about taxes, but you’re still benefiting from what they buy. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/364 "2009-11-15T06:35:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Well, this is typical. It’s ok with you if **coyote2009** is bled dry just because you don’t agree with him/her on _one_ issue, yet you expect us all to pay out thousands of dollars each to provide healthcare to people who couldn’t be bothered to be responsible for themselves? Why do you expect consideration from me that you refuse to give in return? This is what is so hypocritical about conservatives; they think we should be considerate of their interests, yet they have no obligation to be considerate towards the interests of others. > [@](#): > > This shit gets expensive fast - where is that money going to come from? From you, of course. If there is one thing I have learned that conservatives fear, it is poverty, and they will work like beavers to avoid it. So if we raise their taxes, they will run in that wheel even faster to make up for lost income. So we can fund our socialism, and increase productivity at the same time. You work for US now. Payback is a bitch, and losing an election has consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/365 "2009-11-15T06:36:25Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > There isn’t such a right, and you would know it, if only you’d be honest. Are you married? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/366 "2009-11-15T06:40:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why is that brand of socialism acceptable, yet the public option is an abomination? It is less objectionable. We already have Medicaid, so it (probably, maybe, one can hope) wouldn’t be so bad to add to it. However, I’d rather that it be kept private than government. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You have been misinformed. Then so have I. A friend of mine in Toronto needs a new kidney, waited 5 (I think) years in Canada, is now pursuing it in the US. Another friend in BC came to Washington to get her breast cancer treated. I imagine access to care depends on where the person is and what the issue is, but it remains that Canadians don’t have anything like on demand healthcare. Which is only logical - there is only so much of anything and everything to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/367 "2009-11-15T06:42:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > A friend of mine in Toronto needs a new kidney, waited 5 (I think) years in Canada, is now pursuing it in the US. Another friend in BC came to Washington to get her breast cancer treated. I imagine access to care depends on where the person is and what the issue is, but it remains that Canadians don’t have anything like on demand healthcare. Which is only logical - there is only so much of anything and everything to go around. Are you under the impression you can get a kidney on demand in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/368 "2009-11-15T06:52:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Are you under the impression you can get a kidney on demand in the US? dumbo, you just kidnap an illegal immigrant’s kid. they won’t say shit because they’ll get deported. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/369 "2009-11-15T06:55:02Z")
Canada has a lower organ donation rate than the US. According to the [journal of the Canadian Medical Association](http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/5/489): > [@](#): > > Kidney transplantation in Canada is limited by the availability of organs, not by financial constraints. ---
**Author:** ![coyote2009](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@coyote2009](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coyote2009)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/370 "2009-11-15T07:03:13Z")
hmmm… still at it I see. [![](https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg66/BBNPFan/internetarguments.jpg) ](https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg66/BBNPFan/internetarguments.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/371 "2009-11-15T07:05:56Z")
I am shocked, _shocked_, that you would lower yourself to _ad hominem_ attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/372 "2009-11-16T01:36:57Z")
> [@coyote2009](#): > > The wealthy Canadians come to the U.S. or privatized health care. > > The other Canadians wait their turn for medical treatment. > > It takes 4 months to get an MRI in Canada. > > I have some Canadian friends who can tell you about it. > > If it’s normal, routine medicine, no problem. > > But come in with something unusual or that requires a specialist…make out your will. > > It baffles me how so many Americans can be so stupid about this. > > I hate to use the word, “stupid,” but there is not a better term. Speaking as an actual Canadian, with actual experience of the Canadian UHC system, and with friends and relatives who have actual experience (in some cases extensive experience) with the Canadian UHC system, I would be the first to say that the Canadian system is not perfect. Would I want to change to the American system? **Not a fucking chance in hell!** Would Canadians in general want to change to the American system? Also not a fucking chance! So stop trying to use us as your argument against reforms to your own system. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/373 "2009-11-16T02:34:00Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > yes, i’m suggesting that you may have constitutional issues by forcing a private company to take a certain client (at a loss) by fiat. i do not know the intricacies of state insurance codes, however, and the powers that they have to regulate insurance companies in this way. I don’t believe I said anything about requiring a private company to take a loss. > [@](#): > > because if i’m not forced to buy insurance, and an insurance company has to cover my pre-existing conditions, i’m not going to buy health insurance until i’m sick. so preventive medicine will go down the tubes, fast. Apparently you missed my question - what do you think pre-existing conditions (as described by insurance companies) are? > [@](#): > > But, no matter, if there are “scores” of ways to fix the issues, do us a favor and tell us about them? I have, many times, and the response I get from you all is along the lines of “we can’t trust private companies, the guberment will save us all”. > [@](#): > > well thanks for shifting the goalposts. i’m not talking about children. and as a poster mentioned below, how come this brand of “socialism” is kosher? > > oh, i know, because it pawns the money-losing clients off on the government and society at large. > > why yes, they do. > > I.R.C. § 85. Unemployment compensation > (a) General rule > In the case of an individual, gross income includes unemployment compensation. > > i’m not quite sure what your point is, though. Neither one of these responses had anything to do with what I said or asked. Do you want to try again, or shall we just assume you have no intelligent response? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/374 "2009-11-16T02:51:49Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I don’t believe I said anything about requiring a private company to take a loss. forcing an insurance company to take a patient who is known to be, actuarially, a losing client, is requiring said insurance company to take a loss. > [@](#): > > Apparently you missed my question - what do you think pre-existing conditions (as described by insurance companies) are? a prexisting condition is a medical diagnosis that existed, or a medical symptom which would cause a reasonable person to seek medical diagnosis, at a time prior to the effective date of the insurance policy. > [@](#): > > I have, many times, and the response I get from you all is along the lines of “we can’t trust private companies, the guberment will save us all”. that’s nice, dodge the question. if your solutions are so effective, surely their parsimony would enable you to easily reproduce these ideas with a modicum of effort. > [@](#): > > Neither one of these responses had anything to do with what I said or asked. Do you want to try again, or shall we just assume you have no intelligent response? um i answered your quesiton. people on unemployment pay income tax. no, you don’t pay income tax on your food stams because they are federally provided. and i am the one who suggested that medicare is reserved for destitute people. you responded with “that’s not true, if you have kids then…” i responded “ok, i’m not talking about children” you now claim i’m not answering you. i did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/375 "2009-11-16T02:52:02Z")
Dear anti health-care reformers, I mean you all as a class, and not specific posters here. (NSFW, open at own risk) You all are cunts, and not just any everyday grade of cunt you are the laughing stock of cunts. Your views are nonsensical, selfish and evil, or just plain wrong. You cling to them out of bloody mindedness making you bloody minded cunts, and lets face it: no one likes a bloody cunt. Edit: This also applies to antiSSM folks, which the thread now seems to be about, now that I read the last page. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/376 "2009-11-16T02:57:44Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > and i am the one who suggested that medicare is reserved for destitute people. you responded with “that’s not true, if you have kids then…” i responded “ok, i’m not talking about children” you now claim i’m not answering you. i did. that should be medicaid if it’s not obvious ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/377 "2009-11-16T03:05:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > You really do have a problem with reading comprehension, don’t you? 70% is more than half, and therefore the majority. I SAID that most people WANT to overhaul healthcare. Your ‘majority’ just don’t like this specific plan, which would be much more palatable if you lot didn’t work so hard to make it bad. So you _do_ understand that 70% of people wanting to overhaul healthcare _isn’t_ the same thing as that many supporting a UHC. Therefore, it appears that you were trying to fool **Carol** into thinking that a majority wants a UHC. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then I win. Which apparently, is all that is important. Certainly not what is best for the country. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Don’t want to pay taxes? Go live in a cabin somewhere. Just don’t use the roads and other infrastructure the rest of us are paying for. Another one of the stupid arguments. Are you of the opinion that simply because someone is against paying huge taxes to support strangers to the detriment of one’s own family means that one must be against _all_ taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/378 "2009-11-16T03:09:07Z")
[curlcoat](http://www.theofficialjohncarpenter.com/data/movies/sounds/dsscdata.wav). ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/379 "2009-11-16T03:26:14Z")
**Rumor** , you fight the good fight but give up. A million before you have already tried to give **Curlcoat** facts and she just doesn’t want them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/380 "2009-11-16T03:31:48Z")
Oh, come on! A couple thousand, tops! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=20)