# Attention anti health-care reformers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/81 "2009-11-08T23:55:05Z")
> [@Carol Stream](#): > > Oh look, trolling. In giant fonts, even. Nice. You are the biggest troll on this board. That you seem so oblivious to this proves you are just thick as shit. You are a dead-brained chromosomal cul-de-sac. You are utter scum, and everyone fucking hates you. Do us all a solid and piss off. I cannot possibly imagine what pleasure you derive from posting to a place where everybody hates your guts. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/82 "2009-11-09T00:41:05Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > To share some sympathy with the OP- > I was listening to NPR the other day and some GOP apologist was being confronted with the results from a rather large number of polls, all indicating that a big majority of Americans are in favor of UHC. His response was something like, ‘Well I was in polling for years, and I know that they don’t always represent the truth. You can get positive poll numbers for a thing… but in this case, Americans just don’t understand what UHC _really means_. I mean, if you took a poll asking if people would like to have a helicopter pad in their yard so they could be flown to work every day in 4 minutes, that would poll very well, but the idea isn’t practical.’ > > Yah, UHC is Just Like a helicopter for every American, asshole. Thanks for your paternalistic end-around the democratic process by declaring that Americans are all a bunch of idiots and therefore should be ignored while fuckwads like You make the decision instead. God-double-damn it, I was so fucking pissed I… > I feel a rant coming on. Fuck! The pubbies are bald-faced liars and deceivers!!! Dismiss the opinion of the people who would be affected and then compare reform to an oversimplified and ridiculous example. Sounds elitist to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/83 "2009-11-09T00:42:11Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > You are the biggest troll on this board. That you seem so oblivious to this proves you are just thick as shit. You are a dead-brained chromosomal cul-de-sac. You are utter scum, and everyone fucking hates you. Do us all a solid and piss off. I cannot possibly imagine what pleasure you derive from posting to a place where everybody hates your guts. Some people feed off of negative energy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/84 "2009-11-09T01:00:50Z")
**Carol** has a point: the sanctity of **The BBQ Pit** is once again under attack by those with a clear agenda. What proponents of “posts with large fonts and exclamation marks” really want is to redefine the term “Pit” to mean whatever \*they \*want it to mean, instead of what it has always been traditionally understood to mean, which is “a forum dedicated to flaming Fred Phelps, violators of parking etiquette, and a small cadre of consistently douchebaggy posters including **Carol Stream**.” I urge \*\*Carol, \*\*and all those who wish to preserve the traditional definition of the Pit, to make your voices heard by pressing **ALT-F4** to vote **NO!** ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/85 "2009-11-09T01:33:42Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Do you face penalties if you do not carry car insurance? Same idea. I don’t have to own, drive or even ride in a car if I choose not too. This is a bad analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/86 "2009-11-09T01:35:24Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > 42% is a majority? a big majority? > > [Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports®](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform) That _is_ interesting, however, what I was so steamed about was the guy’s sidestepping the issue altogether to talk about how we just can’t afford to give everyone a helicopter. Seemed like one of a thousand examples of a pubbie changing the subject to bullshit instead of addressing an issue. Had he brought up this poll instead, he might have had an actual point. If the pubbies start talking sense, who knows, I may even start respecting them. But people are quick to jump on hypotheticals around here. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/87 "2009-11-09T01:49:54Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > I don’t have to own, drive or even ride in a car if I choose not too. This is a bad analogy. Yes, you can “opt out” of the liability you can cause to others on the road by simply not driving, however it’s a more complicated matter when it comes to health care. If you have a medical emergency, and are uninsured, they can’t turn you away. Not even if you’re flat broke. That means that other people are going to end up paying for you. **Merely by being alive** , and having a human body, and inhabiting a society with sympathetic humans, there is a risk that other people will have to pay for your health care. The only way you can get around that is to adopt a strict policy of turning away everyone at emergency rooms who don’t have insurance or don’t have enough cash to pay for the procedures up front. But the vast majority of people in our society don’t have the stomach to enforce that. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/88 "2009-11-09T01:55:31Z")
For what it’s worth, I’d be happy to let any adult who is a rugged individualist “opt out” of health insurance if, and only if, it could be assured that they won’t get any medical help unless they pay for it. If they have a heart attack and get turned away at the emergency room later, tough shit, they made their decision. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/89 "2009-11-09T02:04:11Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > I cannot possibly imagine what pleasure you derive from posting to a place where everybody hates your guts. That’s not true, and even if it were, it says a lot more about you, than it does about me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/90 "2009-11-09T04:03:55Z")
What people have to understand is that **Carol Stream** is pissed about the Democrat’s plan purely because it will have a negative impact on the cash flow of the **Stream** household. Motivated self interest. Plus, **Carol Stream** will no longer get a woody by denying a dying person’s claim. (I’m waiting for the “I’m rubber and you’re glue” argument from **Carol Stream**. It’ll beat the hell out of the “improper font size argument”) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/91 "2009-11-09T04:12:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What people have to understand is that **Carol Stream** is pissed about the Democrat’s plan purely because it will have a negative impact on the cash flow of the **Stream** household. No, I don’t make over $500K a year. The Democrat plan is still wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/92 "2009-11-09T04:15:13Z")
She does that? Wow, that beats hell out of admitting being a lawyer, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![silk1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@silk1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silk1976)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/93 "2009-11-09T04:34:55Z")
**Crafter\_Man** - The tenth amendment says that any powers not allowed to the federal government by the constitution are reserved for the states. With regards to healthcare, I interpret that as saying the federal government is not able to nationalize all healthcare and put existing healthcare companies out of business willy nilly. The current proposed plan does not do this - my health plan will still exist from my employer, as will the one you currently have. The 10th amendment argument simply does not hold up. If the proposal was to abolish all existing health care companies and roll everyone into a national one, then you might have something. But it doesn’t, so you don’t. What is your thoughts on Medicare? If you disagree with its existence and think it unconstitutional, then at least you are consistent. Wrong, but consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/94 "2009-11-09T04:40:05Z")
> [@silk1976](#): > > What is your thoughts on Medicare? If you disagree with its existence and think it unconstitutional, then at least you are consistent. Wrong, but consistent. IIRC he’s a libertarian and opposes Medicare. And just about everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/95 "2009-11-09T05:54:54Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, I don’t make over $500K a year. The Democrat plan is still wrong, though. Tough shit. There are more of us than there are of you. Now crawl back under your bridge, Man Hands. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/96 "2009-11-09T06:11:19Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/97 "2009-11-09T11:36:06Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > That’s not true, and even if it were, it says a lot more about you, than it does about me. Shut up, darling. Adults are talking. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/98 "2009-11-09T13:23:50Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If you have a medical emergency, and are uninsured, they can’t turn you away. Not even if you’re flat broke. That means that other people are going to end up paying for you. **Merely by being alive** , and having a human body, and inhabiting a society with sympathetic humans, there is a risk that other people will have to pay for your health care. > > The only way you can get around that is to adopt a strict policy of turning away everyone at emergency rooms who don’t have insurance or don’t have enough cash to pay for the procedures up front. But the vast majority of people in our society don’t have the stomach to enforce that. That is an excellent way to explain it, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/99 "2009-11-09T14:10:47Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’d be happy to let any adult who is a rugged individualist “opt out” of health insurance if, and only if, it could be assured that they won’t get any medical help unless they pay for it. If they have a heart attack and get turned away at the emergency room later, tough shit, they made their decision. Something like a big “GOP” tattooed on their forehead so the ER knows to just toss them in the bin? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/100 "2009-11-09T14:22:25Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > I don’t have to own, drive or even ride in a car if I choose not too. This is a bad analogy. But that’s the point. On top of **Blalron’s** good explanation, _having a body is like having a car._ At some point, you’re gonna need expensive health care. If you don’t have insurance, who’s gonna pay for your trip to the “body shop”? Because in this case, unlike a body shop, ERs can’t turn your ass away if you don’t have the cash or insurance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=6)