# Attention anti health-care reformers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745 "2009-11-08T00:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/161 "2009-11-10T08:08:08Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > A fair point, but then, isn’t attempting to do something about this now, if belatedly, also part of the UHC program? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/162 "2009-11-10T15:13:41Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I don’t know. Not a very satisfying answer, but at least you didn’t go off about helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/163 "2009-11-10T15:49:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The rich already receive better care than the regular Joe. The only difference is, under the current system, the regular Joe has no alternative. At least with the public option, they have a choice. Why would you think having no insurance is better than having government insurance? Of course they have a choice, the regular Joe can pay for it himself. Their are plans as low as $50 a month. That is less than the proposed amount is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/164 "2009-11-10T15:50:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Simple. Scrap the whole insurance-for-profit model, and go directly to single-payer. Sooner the better, IMHO. > > Wait. Scratch that last bit. I don’t claim there’s anything humble about it. > > In fact, I reject the notion that it’s an opinion. > > So: _Sooner the better [del]IMHO[/del], in **point of FACT**._ My proposition included a single payer option. Suppose the government fails to be able to pay for it under the current plan. Who pays what going forward? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/165 "2009-11-10T17:44:50Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Perhaps a little off topic, but I’d like to know what 'dopers think. > > I see the argument come up time and again that Medicare is losing money, Social Security is losing money, therefore a public health option can do nothing but fail. Because that’s gov’ment for ya! > > But- isn’t the reason MC and SS are having trouble is because of the demographic bubble? We have an aging population and more and more demand for these services. Basic math, not really government incompetence. And the demographic bubble traces back to Hitler not being able to keep his tanks out of Poland instead of in his pants where they belonged. Again, not really the government’s fault. > > Is that wrong? I’d rather straighten out my views with good info than pretend to be a genius. IIRC, hasn’t the government _borrowed_ from those funds to pay for other expenses? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/166 "2009-11-10T17:50:15Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Not a very satisfying answer, but at least you didn’t go off about helicopters. Hehehe. My source of information about health-care reform comes from watching the news on TV or listening to it on the radio. I have not heard anything about fixing Medicare being part of any bills being considered, or the one that passed the house. Congress may very well have language about it in one or more of their bills, but I haven’t heard it mentioned in the news. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/167 "2009-11-10T17:51:26Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Of course they have a choice, the regular Joe can pay for it himself. Their are plans as low as $50 a month. That is less than the proposed amount is it not? Really? Boy, you’re really gonna have one heck of a compelling argument, just as soon as you bring. Wow, I can hardly wait! Hurry up! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/168 "2009-11-10T18:16:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Really? Boy, you’re really gonna have one heck of a compelling argument, just as soon as you bring. Wow, I can hardly wait! Hurry up! And here I am paying $51 a month. I feel so ripped off! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/169 "2009-11-10T18:24:35Z")
Is that the one that pays off if you are run over by stampeding elephants in a snowstorm on the Fourth of July? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/170 "2009-11-10T18:31:41Z")
Let’s not get in the way, I’m sure **Kearsen** will be back amongst us any second now, to give us the details on this marvelous new development! Hey, you crickets! Shaddup! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/171 "2009-11-10T18:36:42Z")
Gimme fifty bucks and I won’t beat you up. There ya go. What? It’s insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/172 "2009-11-10T19:45:18Z")
I don’t have health insurance now, I don’t bloody want it. I’m going to be forced to pay for insurance AND my taxes will go up. Awesome, fucking awesome. I’ve spent the last year dealing w/ a workman’s comp claim. My employer and I agreed it was a workplace accident and a reasonable claim. Why the long wait you ask? Well that would be the idiotic paper-pushing fuckery of the state industrial commission. I’ve finally been approved for surgery only to find that the government, in all their shining wisdom, has decided that I need to have it at a more expensive clinic 200 miles away. Makes all kinds of fucking sense. Can’t wait to pay for that ineffective UHC with taxes and a monthly bill. Gonna be so awesome when we’ve spent ourselves out of prosperity and completely destroyed the remnants of the free market. YAYYYYY!!! No worries though, I’m sure those Democrats will keep their promises and I’ll be able to get married within the next 20-30yrs or so. It’ll be sweet to have that bit of civil rights when I’m unemployed, unhealthy, unarmed, and living in state housing. HOORAY!!! Take ECON 101 you fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/173 "2009-11-10T19:51:24Z")
Yeah, we’re “going” to spend our way out of prosperity. I do find it hilarious that you are complaining about things like UHC when you’re on worker’s comp. I’ve never been on worker’s comp, therefore I suppose I should see you as a leech getting money that I had to pay in but haven’t had a chance yet to pay out. Any chance we have all seen a picture of you holding a sign saying, “GET A BRAIN, MORANS”? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/174 "2009-11-10T19:54:33Z")
[sub]nevermind[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/175 "2009-11-10T19:57:18Z")
> [@Carol Stream](#): > > That’s not true, and even if it were, it says a lot more about you, than it does about me. No, it’s true. The only posters who don’t hate you or hold you in contempt are the ones who are lucky enough not to know who you are. And when they find out, they’ll hate you too because you are so relentlessly vile. You’re an _utter_ waste of space. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/176 "2009-11-10T23:51:25Z")
Now, now. If you look deep into your heart, I’m sure you will find a grain of sympathy for this vile little troll…wait, let me start over…if you reflect deeply on the compassionate Buddha, you will see that even the most spectacularly worthless leper’s cum-stain has…no, wait, that’s not it…even the least of us has a shred of humanity, even this rotten little pissant who plagues our very…damn, this just isn’t working at all. I’ll be **Zoe** could do it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/177 "2009-11-11T00:38:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Well, again the conservative argument would say, that the Government will offer the UHC at a rate far below what a private insurance company can compete at, due to the $1T (or more if you listen to talk radio) being added to the federal debt, a number which is already going to crush the economy of my kids, even if nothing is added to it (IMHO). > > Will it be as ‘good’ as private healthcare? Depends on your take I guess. If you are anti-gov all the time and cynical, you’ll say that the government rarely delivers services as efficient or user-friendly as the private marketplace. However I fully acknowledge the other side as well, that private healthcare companies have a vested interest in denying coverage when it’s not warranted (although I doubt that happens as much as some on this board claim, anectdotally) as a means of squeaking out a profit. > > And I do mean squeak. I know how this board tilts, having been a lurker forever. However, the profit margins of the private companies are not as high as some suggest. The profit from last year’s top 5 largest healthcare companies, last year: > > UHC did a profit of of $2.9b on a rev of $81.1b > Wellpoint did a profit of $2.4b on a rev of $61.2b > Aetna, $1.3b on $30.9b > Humana, $647m on $28.9b > Cigna, $292m on $19.1b > > That’s profit margins of 3.5%, 3.9%, 4%, 2.2%, and 1.5% respectively. Hardly confiscatory, again in my opinion. And don’t forget they paid taxes on those profits. > > I don’t have a link, sry, I got those numbers from a relative who is high up in AARP, who recently backed this bill, and it came from their talking points he emailed me. When the money is put into the pockets of board members, stockholders and executive salaries and perks, it does not show in profits. The insurance companies have jacked the rates up over and over. They have had revenue pouring in, more and more every year. But giving multi million dollar bonuses does not show as profits. There are lots of ways to hide it. Employee wages are a cost. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/178 "2009-11-11T15:26:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > IIRC, hasn’t the government _borrowed_ from those funds to pay for other expenses? Yeah, good point. You can’t borrow from the bankrupt. Still, I guess you could borrow from the projected-to-be-bankrupt. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/179 "2009-11-11T16:52:24Z")
Frontline on PBS did a program going around the world and comparing different health care plans of industrial countries. I wonder why people don’t realize what a horrible mess out system is? Every other country has zero bankruptcies caused by health problems. we have hundreds of thousands every year. Everyday we have to worry about whether they will cut more at charge higher copays. Our system is the worst in the industrial world, costs by far the most and delivers the least. What the hell is defensible in it? How does oligarchy translate to competition? How does being free of monopoly restraints encourage competition? Our system is non competitive yet we claim it is a free market system. We are once again ,suckers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745/180 "2009-11-11T17:03:03Z")
Because anything but the American system is _ **Socialist!!!111one** _ What are you? _ **Communist?** _ You want to turn America into _ **The Soviet Union** _ or _ **North Korea!!!** _ :mad::mad::mad: LALALALALA! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-anti-health-care-reformers/516745.md?page=10)