# Attention Dems - They WANT Hillary as our Candidate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066 "2006-05-09T14:51:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/1 "2006-05-09T14:51:17Z")
Could there be clearer proof than Rupert Murdoch helping her? > **[Google News](https://news.google.com/topstories?sa=t&ct=us%2F0-0&fp=4460936cece635c6&ei=1KtgRIuAEbTIHKqcoIkG&url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fstories%2F2006%2F05%2F09%2Fpolitics%2Fmain1600694.shtml&cid=1106328683&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en)** > > Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News. I guess the point for debate is whether or not you’re convinced that Hillary is the next election’s George McGovern. And why she might be. To my mind, it’s simple - Karl Rove is convinced that in the voting booth, Americans cannot yet pull the lever for a woman. Of course they can’t admit this, so polls will show Hillary doing great until election day. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/2 "2006-05-09T14:58:06Z")
MUAH HA HA HA HA!!! Er… that is… um… I don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/3 "2006-05-09T15:01:28Z")
> [@bup](#): > > To my mind, it’s simple - Karl Rove is convinced that in the voting booth, Americans cannot yet pull the lever for a woman. I think it’s more a problem of pulling the lever for this particular woman. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/4 "2006-05-09T15:07:02Z")
Look at the states that Bush has won in either of the last two elections. (It’s pretty much the same list.) Can you identify any of them that Ms. Clinton is likely to win? In other words, she may be reasonably popular in New York, or Illinois. But the Democrats don’t need help in those states. They need a boost in one or more states that they lost in the last election. (And an answer of “maybe Ohio, if everything breaks the right way” is a mighty thin reed to rely upon.) ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/5 "2006-05-09T15:13:44Z")
I think it’s a combination. The idea of Hilary as the Dem candidate is ridiculous to me. She’s a polarizing person even within the party. Like W, she’s only a uniter in that she unites people in opposition. That said, I can’t think of a woman who could get elected POTUS. I think it will happen in my lifetime, but I strongly suspect that any woman who could achieve it will have to be the most make Margaret Thatcher look like a fluffy bunny. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/6 "2006-05-09T15:14:45Z")
Just pretend that “be the most” part was deleted like I meant to, okey dokey? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/7 "2006-05-09T15:26:04Z")
Actually, Karl Rove doesn’t want Hillary to win. He just wants to make you think he wants her to run, then you’ll pick someone else. Or, maybe he just wants you to think that he wants you to think she’ll run, and onnce you figure that out you’ll make sure she does run. Damn, this can get complicated!! I don’t think Hillary is a good choice for the Dems, but worrying about what Karl Rove wants is silly. The Democrats should pick who they think best represents the party and who can best win. Presonally, I think the best bet is to pick a southern Governor. The guy who writes the Daily Kos had an editorial about Hillary in today’s paper. I’m sure it’s on hiw website. He doesn’t like her, but I don’t buy his argument that the Deaniacs will prevail in '08. As for Americans voting for a woman, I don’t think it’s that big a deal, but it’ll more likely be a Republican rather than a Democrat who makes it to the WH first. (Not Condi, though. At least not this time around.) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/8 "2006-05-09T15:27:06Z")
> [@Random](#): > > Can you identify any of them that Ms. Clinton is likely to win? Arkansas. Ha ha! I’m just kidding. You’re right. Evan Bayh, Mark Warner. Southern (or Good ol’ Boy state - I think Indiana qualifies) moderate. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/9 "2006-05-09T15:33:02Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t think Hillary is a good choice for the Dems, but worrying about what Karl Rove wants is silly. Rove is just my personification of the Republican strategy machine. I don’t think it’s silly to think that Republicans try to influence who the Democratic candidate is (in fact, I heard from a guy they’ve done it before). I also don’t think _being aware of it_ is silly. If Democrats had been more aware of what the purpose was of all the gay marriage referenda last election, and prevented as many as possible, we might have a different president right now. > [@](#): > > As for Americans voting for a woman, I don’t think it’s that big a deal, but it’ll more likely be a Republican rather than a Democrat who makes it to the WH first. (Not Condi, though. At least not this time around.) Nobody will say it’s a big deal. You’re right, though - America will be ready when the Republicans put forth a woman candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/10 "2006-05-09T15:38:08Z")
I am going to completely give up on the Democratic Party if they put Hillary on the ticket. As far as I’m concerned, she’d make a good President (and having Bill back in the White House would be another huge plus). But can we please be realistic? Zombie Hitler would win against Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/11 "2006-05-09T16:11:04Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Rove is just my personification of the Republican strategy machine. I don’t think it’s silly to think that Republicans try to influence who the Democratic candidate is (in fact, I heard from a guy they’ve done it before). I also don’t think _being aware of it_ is silly. OK, “silly” was not the best choice of words. But if you’re going to not back a candidate simply because the other side wants that candidate, well then no wonder the Democrats don’t win. The idea that the Republicans could (even if they wanted to) make the Dems pick one person over another is a stretch. The Dems have to get over the idea that they only lose because of Republican “tricks”, and this feeds right into that meme. > [@](#): > > If Democrats had been more aware of what the purpose was of all the gay marriage referenda last election, and prevented as many as possible, we might have a different president right now. If, if, if. Yeah, if pigs had wings… How, exactly, would the Dems have prevented those initiatives from being on the ballots? And if they had done so, how do you know that the Republicans couldn’t have used that to their advantage. The Dems (as a whole) are supposedly neutral to anti- on the SSM issue at the state level. Do they really want to be seen as pro-? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/12 "2006-05-09T16:16:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Actually, Karl Rove doesn’t want Hillary to win. He just wants to make you think he wants her to run, then you’ll pick someone else. Or, maybe he just wants you to think that he wants you to think she’ll run, and onnce you figure that out you’ll make sure she does run. Truly you have a dizzying intellect. Actually, I feel sort of like I do when the pundits of the media push McCain as the Republican front-runner. He wouldn’t be my first choice, and I am neither drawn to nor repelled by him, just because the Washington press corps has pegged him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/13 "2006-05-09T16:17:08Z")
_Yawn._ I remember this same junk from two years ago. It didn’t accomplish anything, it just led to endless second-guessing. It doesn’t matter what the Republicans want. This isn’t a war; you don’t need the element of surprise. You pick the best candidate and that’s it. I don’t think she’s the best candidate, but saying we shouldn’t choose her because the Republicans don’t was us to is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/14 "2006-05-09T16:23:00Z")
> [@bup](#): > > If Democrats had been more aware of what the purpose was of all the gay marriage referenda last election, and prevented as many as possible, we might have a different president right now. Are you saying that the Democrats’ national platform (or any state platform) favored same-sex marriage? If they did, they certainly did not publicize it. Are you saying that they _secretly_ favored it? Are you saying that… actually, I’ll stop putting words in your mouth. You tell me: what are you saying the actual Democratic position is, and is it different than the position they are public about? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/15 "2006-05-09T16:32:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Truly you have a dizzying intellect. > > Actually, I feel sort of like I do when the pundits of the media push McCain as the Republican front-runner. He wouldn’t be my first choice, and I am neither drawn to nor repelled by him, just because the Washington press corps has pegged him. > > Regards, > Shodan Hey, I thought I was the one with the [dizzying intellect](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6217003#post6217003). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/16 "2006-05-09T16:49:32Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Zombie Hitler would win against Hillary Clinton. I thought he was resigning to deal with his corruption trial. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/17 "2006-05-09T16:55:39Z")
Bricker, what I think that’s supposed to mean is that the referenda were only partially meant to ensconce prejudicial treatment against homosexuals. Another purpose was to ensure heavy conservative turnout in the elections. If the proposals were off the ballot box somehow or another, the election could have gone another way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/18 "2006-05-09T16:57:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > OK, “silly” was not the best choice of words. D’oh. I thought it was a fine choice of words. Psyching yourself out by trying to divine what the Republicans want strikes me as silly. It’s a bad idea to try to figure out what your opponent wants (so as not to give it to him) before you even know what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/19 "2006-05-09T17:05:10Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I thought he was resigning to deal with his corruption trial. The trouble really started for Zombie Hitler when he appeared on that magazine cover in the maroon jacket and pink tie. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066/20 "2006-05-09T17:05:47Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I thought [Zombie Hitler] was resigning to deal with his corruption trial. That netted you at least one out-loud laugh, right here at my desk in Houston, Texas. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dems-they-want-hillary-as-our-candidate/356066.md?page=2)