# Attention dipsticks: Bicycles can go damn fast. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002 "2012-10-07T17:27:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/41 "2012-10-08T08:24:03Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I’m trying to think of the last time I saw a car driving down a one way street the wrong way on purpose, or driving at night without lights, or refusing to have brakes, or blowing through one stop sign after another. Daily occurrences here in Portland. As a driver, if I see a car doing something dangerous and illegal I’ll call the cops. Do bike riders so the same? > > The majority of bike riders are cautious, courteous, and drive legally, but the percentage of asshole bike riders is waay more than that of asshole drivers. > > It’s moved past “we have just as much right to the roads as cars”, which I agree with, to “I’m morally better than you people driving cars so I can do what ever the fuck I want”. Oh dear. There’s always one. I can’t speak definitively about where you live and drive, I’ve only ever driven on four continents and probably not in your neighbourhood. However, everywhere I’ve ever driven, without exception: (a) motorists who drive at or below the speed limit most of the time are so rare they are a statistical anomaly; (b) indicator usage is a joke; (c) the only limit on the number of motorists a traffic cop can book by staking out a stop sign is how fast the cop can write and how long before he goes elsewhere; (d) red lights not much different; (d) ditto drink driving. Every single one of these examples is more dangerous than anything a cyclist can do, simply because there is no comparison at all between the damage a rider plus 15kg of bike at 20mpg and the damage 1500+kg of car at 35+mph can do. If you want to be so dumbass as to keep attempting to argue as you are, you go right ahead. It’s been a year or two since I’ve last amused myself by wiping the floor with someone who tried. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/42 "2012-10-08T08:53:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What, they couldn’t hear the baseball card clicking in your spokes? back in the day i used plastic soft drink covers. they are louder than ye fancy paper collectible card. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/43 "2012-10-08T11:49:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Oh dear. There’s always one. > > I can’t speak definitively about where you live and drive, I’ve only ever driven on four continents and probably not in your neighbourhood. However, everywhere I’ve ever driven, without exception: > > (a) motorists who drive at or below the speed limit most of the time are so rare they are a statistical anomaly; > > (b) indicator usage is a joke; > > (c) the only limit on the number of motorists a traffic cop can book by staking out a stop sign is how fast the cop can write and how long before he goes elsewhere; > > (d) red lights not much different; > > (d) ditto drink driving. The speciality in the US right now is cell phone usage or outright distracting the driver (iPad or DVD player on the steering wheel). Unsafe passing is also fun on my present bike route. Why wait 4 whole long seconds to pass a cyclist safely when you can dive over the double-yellow line and try to pass on a blind curve? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/44 "2012-10-08T12:32:49Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I’m trying to think of the last time I saw a car driving down a one way street the wrong way on purpose, or driving at night without lights, or refusing to have brakes, or blowing through one stop sign after another. Daily occurrences here in Portland. I see that a lot in the suburb I live in from both cars and bikes. It’s a fairly well-to-do suburb and a lot of people seem to think that stuff like that is an annoyance they shouldn’t have to be bothered with, but everyone else should. Cars love treating the one-way street near my house as being their personal “special” short-cut. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/45 "2012-10-08T12:56:24Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > The day I get a speeding ticket on my bike I will immediately pay the fine and put the ticket in a frame. I’ve got a mate that got ticketed for going through a red light on his bike. At least he could see the funny side of it, despite costing him around 1000 SEK. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/46 "2012-10-08T13:11:36Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’ve got a mate that got ticketed for going through a red light on his bike. At least he could see the funny side of it, despite costing him around 1000 SEK. Why would anyone be proud of running a red light on a bike? That’s like bragging that your Ferrari got a parking ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/47 "2012-10-08T14:01:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Uh, **Inner Stickler**. You might want to check the post I was responding to. I read Cat Whisperer’s post several times. I still don’t know where you’re getting the idea that she’s saying disregard traffic lights. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/48 "2012-10-08T14:20:43Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’ve got a mate that got ticketed for going through a red light on his bike. At least he could see the funny side of it, despite costing him around 1000 SEK. The funny side of it being… what, exactly? That a car driver lawfully going through a green light probably wouldn’t also have been killed in the event of a collision, but only emotionally scarred for life after having turned an idiot bicyclist into a grease stain in the intersection? Hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/49 "2012-10-08T14:21:23Z")
Perhaps it was this bit: > [@](#): > > And if there’s a cross walk, whether there’s a light or not, ALL vehicles (that includes you bikers), have to yield to peds. Obviously, if there’s no light at the crosswalk, then the pedestrians have the right-of-way. If there’s a light controlling the crosswalk, then, no, the pedestrian does not automatically have the right of way. The pedestrian must wait for the cute little green man or green arrow, or whatever it is in that jurisdiction. But, of course, when the pedestrian does have the right-of-way, all vehicles, including, of course, bicycles, are to yield to the pedestrians. ---
**Author:** ![Coustralee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Coustralee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coustralee)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/50 "2012-10-08T15:13:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They do that to cars also. As do other cars. But I assume they do it more often with bicyclists because the guys who ride them are whiny little bitches. ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/51 "2012-10-08T15:27:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Obviously, if there’s no light at the crosswalk, then the pedestrians have the right-of-way. If there’s a light controlling the crosswalk, then, no, the pedestrian does not automatically have the right of way. The pedestrian must wait for the cute little green man or green arrow, or whatever it is in that jurisdiction. Since Canvas Shoes (I don’t know why I thought it was Cat Whisperer earlier, apologies all around.) in literally the last line before that paragraph demonstrated a clear understanding of how traffic lights work, I don’t know how you could read that paragraph and assume she suddenly forgot all about them. Your obviously is her explanation. Wherever she is, it’s _not_ obvious to cars and cyclists that pedestrians have the right of way at non-lit crosswalks and that’s what she’s trying to emphasize. I really don’t think this is difficult to understand. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/52 "2012-10-08T15:30:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Oh dear. There’s always one. > > I can’t speak definitively about where you live and drive, I’ve only ever driven on four continents and probably not in your neighbourhood. However, everywhere I’ve ever driven, without exception: > > (a) motorists who drive at or below the speed limit most of the time are so rare they are a statistical anomaly; > > (b) indicator usage is a joke; > > (c) the only limit on the number of motorists a traffic cop can book by staking out a stop sign is how fast the cop can write and how long before he goes elsewhere; > > (d) red lights not much different; > > (d) ditto drink driving. > > Every single one of these examples is more dangerous than anything a cyclist can do, simply because there is no comparison at all between the damage a rider plus 15kg of bike at 20mpg and the damage 1500+kg of car at 35+mph can do. > > If you want to be so dumbass as to keep attempting to argue as you are, you go right ahead. It’s been a year or two since I’ve last amused myself by wiping the floor with someone who tried. I’m sure having experienced driving everywhere except my neighborhood has given you exceptional insight into the relative behavior of drivers and cyclists in Portland. I’ve only driven on three continents so I’m only 75% certain about how people drive where you live, though from your attitude I can guess. I have to say that I am surprised that you manage to ride at all in places that routinely have drivers going the wrong way down one-way streets with no lights on and no brakes and deciding to turn left from the far right lane while cutting the corner. But please, when people from places that drive like assholes move to Portland don’t think that the fact that you are an eco-warrior on a bicycle lets you continue to do so. Your lesson in physics pretty much tells the whole story. You think because you are on a bike and not a car you can do what ever the fuck you want. But if you run down an old woman on a sidewalk don’t be surprised if your 15kg bicycle is used by bystanders to beat you senseless. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/53 "2012-10-08T23:42:44Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > So fuck you 😃 [Moderating] Telling other posters “fuck you” is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Please avoid doing this in the future. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/54 "2012-10-09T01:29:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > In practice, a lot of pedestrians seem to use them as licenses to cross the street at any time in any traffic conditions, and they will just start marching out into steady streams of cars on main streets who otherwise have right of way. Here in DC it seems like hurling myself into traffic is the only way to get cars to stop at an uncontrolled crosswalk. Maybe I should start carrying flags with me. Although rocks are more tempting. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/55 "2012-10-09T02:24:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Just for shits and giggles, I took a quick look for a bike speedometer with the most functions, and found the Polar [CS500+cad](http://www.trinowfitness.com/en/Polar-CS500-Plus-Cad.html/?src=apa), for about $250. I don’t know if has the most functions of all, but Jeebus, it has lots! > > Ok, it doesn’t have the blood pressure monitor, range finder, radar detector and lie detector I listed. But it DOES have: > Speed – current, average and maximum > Distance – training, lap, and total > Cadence – current, average and maximum > Altimeter/Barometer – totals ascents and descents, graphs of altitude change > Air Temperature > Average, min and max heart rate by lap or training session > Target heart rate zone to assist keeping within your zone > Calorie speedometer – calibrated by altitude! – the rate at which you’re burning calories > Data transmission – send your info to a command post, possibly so they can send a hearse when you drop dead from exhaustion > Day/Date/Time > several stopwaatches > Also 14 different training reports, downloadable to computer > Autostart/stop - you can set this so it doesn’t add time or distance when you’re stopped _or coasting_. > Power output – current, average and maximum (I dunno, maybe in watts?) > > AND MORE! > > This will allow our athletes to bike to nearby stars. But can it detect the elusive Smugs Doucheon particle, long thought by science to emanate from dickbag cyclists in silly costumes? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/56 "2012-10-09T02:29:45Z")
Is that the particle thought to travel at the speed of Lycra? ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/57 "2012-10-09T02:31:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Madison started a thing a few years back which I absolutely hate. On streets with any significant vehicle traffic, they put bins on all four corners of intersections with red flags on sticks. The idea is that pedestrians will wave them while crossing the street to make themselves more visible to drivers. > > In practice, a lot of pedestrians seem to use them as licenses to cross the street at any time in any traffic conditions, and they will just start marching out into steady streams of cars on main streets who otherwise have right of way. St. Paul had the same sticks, though they had high-vis yellow flags. I liked them, because it took less effort to attract attention than frantically waving my arms as I legally crossed a street. Sadly, the intersection that had them near my office now has a button that turns on flashing yellow lights, which still require me to frantically wave my arms to get the attention of distracted motorists. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/58 "2012-10-09T02:36:26Z")
I’ve seen enough bicycle vs. automobile accidents that I’d have to use both hands to count them. In every case, the bicyclist was at fault, and in most of those cases it went beyond a simple mistake into downright aggressive and reckless riding. I think a typical bicyclist might be more irresponsible and dangerous than the average driver. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/59 "2012-10-09T03:11:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They can ignore me at their own risk. I don’t actually own a bike, you see; instead, I’m an enthusiastic user of my city’s bike sharing service. When a big heavy guy like me on a big, heavy municipal bike comes bearing down on them at 25 km/h, they better be faster than me, because they won’t come out the crash looking that good, stupid helmet or no stupid helmet. Not sure what you mean, **Alessan**. Fairly big guy myself, riding a nice heavy hybrid, went around a bend in the park trail pretty fast, head-on into a ‘silly little’ golf-cart that the police use to patrol the area – golf-cart _won_. Big time! I shattered my left wrist, tore half my right ear from the lobe, and broke the back of my helmet\* in two. TBH, I can’t tell you what they looked like afterwards, since I woke up in the ER some thirty minutes later. But I’m betting they did fine – they make off with my watch. 😉 That was three years ago, don’t ride much anymore…but still, wouldn’t recommend head-on collisions with any type of vehicle. Or anything else for that matter. On a bike, _you are_ the bodywork. If “they ignore you” bet your ass it’s **at your own risk**. \*Helmet was key to surviving. Good Giro model. If it wasn’t for that, well, splat! don’t pass Go and head to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002/60 "2012-10-09T03:37:41Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I’ve seen enough bicycle vs. automobile accidents that I’d have to use both hands to count them. In every case, the bicyclist was at fault, and in most of those cases it went beyond a simple mistake into downright aggressive and reckless riding. I think a typical bicyclist might be more irresponsible and dangerous than the average driver. Wheras I have been in my share of bike accidents and in each case it was the driver who was at fault. In most cases it was ludicrously ignorant or aggressive driving that caused the accident. Except for the case that was outright vehicular assault, that is. I’ll put it another way. More than a few of the bicycling commuters I know have added helmet cams to their gear. I doubt they are doing this to show how they are irresponsible riders. No doubt there are bad cyclists. But the idea that the ‘typical’ bicyclist is automatically more irresponsible and dangerous than ‘typical’ driver has me shaking my head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-dipsticks-bicycles-can-go-damn-fast/637002.md?page=4)