# Attention European Embassies in America: Use American Style Dating on Your Official Notices! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945 "2012-09-07T02:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/41 "2012-09-07T18:52:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Cite? I’m not sure exactly how to cite that. China, Japan, and Korea all use YYYY/MM/DD as their standard date format, so when the year isn’t specified the date format becomes the same as for the US. This is why, for example, one of the Korean names for the Korean War is the “6/25 War” (because it started on June 25th). The dominance of American English in English education would also be a factor, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/42 "2012-09-07T19:11:33Z")
I’m glad to see others in here mentioning YMD, because it’s the most logical and least ambiguous method. The other methods leave something lacking. The American system matches with how we say dates September 7, 2012 = 09/07/12, but it puts the numers in an odd order. The European system has the numbers in a logical order but then it’s inconsistent with normal ways of speaking. Even if you go to the full year, is 10/08/2012 October 8th or August 10th? That’s where YMD works, and it’s not jsut 12/09/07, because that’s obviously just as ambiguous as either other system, but it’s 2012-09-07 (I’ll even do 20120907 at times). It has an even more logical order than the European method, ordering most significant to least significant, but it also won’t be confused with any other method because the first is obviously the year so it’s not MDY or DMY, and no one uses YDM. The most significant to least significant numbering is also great for sorting. For instance, when autogenerating log files or whatever, it creates a simple and unambiguous naming standard. If, for whatever reason, that method doesn’t work, the simple solution is just to abbreviate the month to remove ambiguity. I work for the military and I’ll see stuff like 07SEP2012 and it’s a completely unambiguous and well ordered method that works well for the type of communication that caused the OP’s problem. I’m not as much of a fan since it does least significant to most significant and mixes in letters, both of which make sorting and all a bit off, but it probably works a bit better as human readable. Either way, I hate both the American and European dating methods and would much prefer to see either of those methods used more often. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/43 "2012-09-07T19:13:02Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > (I’ll even do 20120907 at times) > … > > 07SEP2012 No! Use spaces! Please! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/44 "2012-09-07T22:40:28Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The ACTUAL deadline was August 10, the MISUNDERSTOOD deadline was October 8. By going down in late August, they thought they were being early, but they missed the actual deadline. Ah, got it. I was stuck on thinking how doing something by the end of August was going to work with your mid-August deadline. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/45 "2012-09-08T01:41:28Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > What, no sympathy for the people in Belize? > > But seriously, it’s not just Americans. If you showed the date “8/10” to most Asians they’d think it was referring to August 10th. I was gonna have a go at debunking this but given what I found in google when looking up asian dating, I may be a long time. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/46 "2012-09-08T04:38:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No! Use spaces! Please! But if the person’s just directly adopting the military-style date cypher, then it does not use spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/47 "2012-09-08T04:41:24Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But if the person’s just directly adopting the military-style date cypher No reason to do that, though, not in civilized society. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/48 "2012-09-08T08:30:53Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > China, Japan, and Korea all use YYYY/MM/DD as their standard date format… I wish you’d made this clarification originally. YYYY/MM/DD is logical in a way which MM/DD/YYYY is definitely not. (Deleting the ‘YYYY’ leads to ambiguity but that’s a separate issue – OP’s date had YYYY.) In Thailand, FWIW, DD/MM/YYYY is the convention, according to my college-bound informant now waiting for me to relinquish our only Internet connection. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/49 "2012-09-08T09:21:56Z")
I agree that year, month, day is the best way to do it. Best for computer sorting based on date, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/50 "2012-09-08T10:16:45Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I agree that year, month, day is the best way to do it. Best for computer sorting based on date, for sure. Who gives a shit what works well for computers? Computers need to accommodate humans, not the other way round. DD/MM/YYYY works best because it lists from left to right the information most likely to be of interest to the person reading it. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/51 "2012-09-08T10:36:19Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Who gives a shit what works well for computers? Computers need to accommodate humans, not the other way round. DD/MM/YYYY works best because it lists from left to right the information most likely to be of interest to the person reading it. The problem is that if you do it that way, when you sort the files, they won’t come up chronologically. That’s why it’s useful to use Year - Month - Day. So, it’s suitable for human eyes looking through lists of files. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/52 "2012-09-08T10:55:44Z")
Now I can’t stop thinking about what it means to date “American-style.” Is that where you buy a girl hot dogs and fries, set off some fireworks, then have sex in the bed of your pickup truck by the light of the moon? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/53 "2012-09-08T11:12:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > The Embassy is German, and all the people in it are German. Your mother is German, you know she is German. And yet it never occurred to either of you to take 10 frickin’ seconds to consider that the date format might be what, you know,\*\* the entire rest of the world other than the US uses\*\*? > > And this has happened **every frickin’ year** , and it’s still news to you? What exactly is the matter with you? > > Welcome to how the rest of the world has to think, every single frickin’ time they deal with any bloody American. I’m bloody grateful when they remember that timezones even exist, let alone how they work. Welcome to my world of being woken up at 2am because some stupid American has failed to realise that the rest of the world lives somewhere that isn’t the Rocky Mountains. The German consulate aren’t the parochial shitheads, just so you know. Yeah, and if an American Embassy in Germany fucked up something like this I’m sure it’d be “those [del]fucking[/del] bloody Americans! Even when they’re in another country they still have to pretend the rest of world operates on their rules.” ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/54 "2012-09-08T11:37:53Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’m glad to see others in here mentioning YMD, because it’s the most logical and least ambiguous method. The other methods leave something lacking. The American system matches with how we say dates September 7, 2012 = 09/07/12, but it puts the numers in an odd order. The European system has the numbers in a logical order but then it’s inconsistent with normal ways of speaking. Even if you go to the full year, is 10/08/2012 October 8th or August 10th? Assuming you are talking about some international standard; the problem of the ‘European system’ is absent in most language. In most language I can think of, the normal ways of speaking use DMY, inverting this would be the illogical way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/55 "2012-09-08T12:02:12Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Yeah, and if an American Embassy in Germany fucked up something like this I’m sure it’d be “those [del]fucking[/del] bloody Americans! Even when they’re in another country they still have to pretend the rest of world operates on their rules.” Are you telling me they don’t? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/56 "2012-09-08T12:57:13Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Who gives a shit what works well for computers? Computers need to accommodate humans, not the other way round. DD/MM/YYYY works best because it lists from left to right the information most likely to be of interest to the person reading it. This organic unit has clearly not been fully assimilated. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/57 "2012-09-08T13:55:39Z")
I’m surprised no one addressed _this_ issue from the OP: > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > P.S. I can use the word Kraut because I am one. By the way, we really need newer ethnic slurs for Germans. Kraut is just lame. Nazi? Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/58 "2012-09-08T15:24:15Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Frankly, everybody should just switch to the YMD format. Then there’s no confusion. Also the metric system, military time and UNIX. But will they listen ?! ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/59 "2012-09-08T15:30:51Z")
Fucking krauts. Even after the Americans saved their arses in the war they still can’t conform… ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945/60 "2012-09-08T16:32:57Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Fucking krauts. Even after the Americans saved their arses in the war they still can’t conform… This made me cough up my coffee:), thanks for that:mad:. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-european-embassies-in-america-use-american-style-dating-on-your-official-notices/633945.md?page=4)