# Attention white people: ITS BLACK HISTORY MONTH. Think. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036 "2016-02-03T06:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/181 "2016-02-04T15:39:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > same reason Mens Right’s Activists are a joke, of course. > > Now don’t go off stabbing a seat about it… Yes, thinking that men being raped is a problem society should prevent is so laughable. But, really, that’s pretty rich coming from a sexist who bullied a woman into giving up her username. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/182 "2016-02-04T15:40:54Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Then there are the poker players, who have declared racism over after 400 years, and now that they have all the chips, pull out a fresh deck and say “NOW let’s play fair, because to give my opponent any kind of advantage would just be WRONG!” So because someone cheated at poker in the past, others should cheat? That makes no sense. To end institutional racism is not to deny that racism still exists, it is part of the effort to stop racism. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/183 "2016-02-04T15:42:09Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > do know I am not free of racism So you’re a racist? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/184 "2016-02-04T15:54:49Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yes, thinking that men being raped is a problem society should prevent is so laughable. > > But, really, that’s pretty rich coming from a sexist who bullied a woman into giving up her username. Although there may indeed be some MRAs out there who are fighting against male rape and the perceptions it draws, the majority of what you see online are a bunch of harpies whining that all women are bitches because they won’t have sex with them. We’ve got a couple of ‘nice guys’ on the board like that and, if you need a more (in)famous example, that idiot Elliot Rodgers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/185 "2016-02-04T16:03:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > If he says no, will you accept that and move on, or will you try new bait? I’m just trying to narrow down _why_ they’re characterizing DeMarcus Cousins’ objection as a “temper tantrum” ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/186 "2016-02-04T16:04:02Z")
I would like to thank **lance strong arm** for being a good example. I’d have been embarrassed to name him myself. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/187 "2016-02-04T16:17:38Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yes, thinking that men being raped is a problem society should prevent is so laughable. Yep, \*I \*_totally_ do not give a shit about men being raped, you got me there :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > But, really, that’s pretty rich coming from a sexist who bullied a woman into giving up her username. The one who who had the racist slur in her username? _That_ woman? You think if \*\*HottentotCupid \*\*registered, I’d have treated it any differently? What’s sexist about anti-racism? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/188 "2016-02-04T16:38:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so I’ll add that when someone says something totally ludicrous and beyond reason, then I have no problem with questioning or disputing that. I figured stuff like that could be left unsaid (especially since I’ve said “in general” or similar, not “always”). Thinking the Chinese Year of the Monkey is racist is one of those things. Thinking it has anything whatsoever to do with Black History Month is one of those things. Totally ludicrous beyond reason. I’m sure you disagree. Every twelve years, every single black person born on the face of the Earth would be considered to be Monkeys in the Chinese Zodiac - along with every other human born in that cycle. Also not racist. Shocking! ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/189 "2016-02-04T17:45:30Z")
Did I miss it somewhere that someone said, in and of itself, that the Chinese Year of the Monkey is racist? Because I didn’t think anyone had. No, I thought the issue was handing out shirts celebrating the Chinese Year of the Monkey _during_ Black History month for a predominantly black basketball team who would then have to constantly listen to the derogatory remarks until the next racist opportunity came along. I thought that was the specific being discussed. Of course, I could be wrong. Which wouldn’t even be the first time this afternoon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/190 "2016-02-04T17:46:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Thinking the Chinese Year of the Monkey is racist is one of those things. No one has claimed this. > [@](#): > > Thinking it has anything whatsoever to do with Black History Month is one of those things. No one has claimed this. You have useful and relevant points to make. Why undermine them with hyperbole and mischaracterization? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/191 "2016-02-04T17:55:39Z")
You guys are forgetting the thing that everyone jumped in to tell that guy who said something sexist about Gillian Anderson. **Intent ultimately does not matter when it comes to bigotry.** What matters is history, social perception, the perception of the target, and other such. If intent is what matters, then what’s wrong with a white kid saying “nigger” all the time on Xbox? He heard it online, and claims it just means “shitty person” and nothing about race. He has no intent of being racist. Yet I bet every single one of you would teach the kid not to say that word. Because the word is racist, whether the kid meant it to be or not. Yes, it’s the Year of the Monkey. It makes perfect sense that they would hand out monkey t-shirts. But they also clearly know it’s Black History Month, _and are deliberately celebrating that_. And it’s in China, where racism against black people is more acceptable than in the West. It’s not remotely unreasonable to see the two as connected, even if they really weren’t. And the fact that such an interpretation is not unreasonable meant it was something they shouldn’t do. I don’t know why there exists a culture who want to skate up close to the line when it comes to racism. It’s like those kids I knew at church who would get as close as they could to (what we all considered) sin. And, just like in this thread, it inevitably resulted in people winding up crossing a line they never meant to cross. Pure intentions don’t take away a history of oppression. They at most give you a chance to go “Oops. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to do that. Let me fix things.” But that’s your chance. You skip that and tell people, “How dare you be offended!” and you lost it. Not offending them doesn’t matter to you. And if it’s a racial minority that you don’t care not to offend, you’re going to be seen as racist. Not being racist means caring about the feelings of people of other races. And, no, you can’t say it’s how you treat everyone. Because you’ve shown otherwise. You don’t go around deliberately offending people on this board. You freak out when you are offended. Some of you even defend other people against offense. But, in this case, you think that, because you aren’t offended, the offense of others don’t matter. How dare they not become mind-readers and figure out their intent? Hell, you’re probably offended now that I and some other people have dared lecture you about this. How dare we try to make the world a better place by helping you understand how racism works! And make no bones about it–this is how it works. They did, in fact, decide not to give out the t-shirts. Because it would have been offensive, no matter how much you argue that it shouldn’t be. I don’t know why we have to drag so many people kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It’s bad enough on more conservative sites like Reddit. I don’t get why it’s a problem on a liberal message board. Is it just because this board skews older? Is that why these weird patches of conservatism pop up, where the liberal side is in the minority? Sigh. We still have a long way to go. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/192 "2016-02-04T18:06:06Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Thinking the Chinese Year of the Monkey is racist is one of those things. Thinking it has anything whatsoever to do with Black History Month is one of those things. Totally ludicrous beyond reason. I’m sure you disagree. Who thinks the Chinese Year of the Monkey is racist? And why do so many conservative Dopers think they can read my mind? Does the ink on National Review, or the Washington Times, or whatever, cause false beliefs in psychic ability? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/193 "2016-02-04T18:13:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s like those kids I knew at church who would get as close as they could to (what we all considered) sin. Like instead of actually masturbating they would just walk around with their wiener in their hand? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/194 "2016-02-04T18:16:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You guys are forgetting the thing that everyone jumped in to tell that guy who said something sexist about Gillian Anderson. **Intent ultimately does not matter when it comes to bigotry.** What matters is history, social perception, the perception of the target, and other such. > > If intent is what matters, then what’s wrong with a white kid saying “nigger” all the time on Xbox? He heard it online, and claims it just means “shitty person” and nothing about race. He has no intent of being racist. So is that kid a racist? Or just a kid? Intent DOES matter. Of course it does. It’s no different than with any other offense or crime. That’s not the same thing as saying it is okay. In the case of the kid, you teach him to stop saying it, and why. If he continues to do it, on purpose, then he’s got intent, and it’s different. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/195 "2016-02-04T18:20:03Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So is that kid a racist? Or just a kid? > > Intent DOES matter. Of course it does. It’s no different than with any other offense or crime. > > That’s not the same thing as saying it is okay. > > In the case of the kid, you teach him to stop saying it, and why. If he continues to do it, on purpose, then he’s got intent, and it’s different. That kid may or may not be a racist, but he _said a racist thing_. We can never truly know someone’s intent – we can’t read minds – so it seems reasonable, to me, to call out actions and assertions that are racist (and teach that this is inappropriate), regardless of intent. Being a racist, or even saying racist things, isn’t a crime and shouldn’t be a crime – so I don’t think it can be compared to criminal acts (certain racist actions, like lynching or spraying hate speech on a church/synagogue are criminal acts, obviously). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/196 "2016-02-04T18:23:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You guys are forgetting the thing that everyone jumped in to tell that guy who said something sexist about Gillian Anderson. **Intent ultimately does not matter when it comes to bigotry.** What matters is history, social perception, the perception of the target, and other such. > > If intent is what matters, then what’s wrong with a white kid saying “nigger” all the time on Xbox? He heard it online, and claims it just means “shitty person” and nothing about race. He has no intent of being racist. > > Yet I bet every single one of you would teach the kid not to say that word. Because the word is racist, whether the kid meant it to be or not. > Yes, it’s the Year of the Monkey. It makes perfect sense that they would hand out monkey t-shirts. But they also clearly know it’s Black History Month, _and are deliberately celebrating that_. And it’s in China, where racism against black people is more acceptable than in the West. It’s not remotely unreasonable to see the two as connected, even if they really weren’t. And the fact that such an interpretation is not unreasonable meant it was something they shouldn’t do. > > I don’t know why there exists a culture who want to skate up close to the line when it comes to racism. It’s like those kids I knew at church who would get as close as they could to (what we all considered) sin. And, just like in this thread, it inevitably resulted in people winding up crossing a line they never meant to cross. > > **Pure intentions don’t take away a history of oppression. They at most give you a chance to go “Oops. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to do that. Let me fix things.” But that’s your chance. You skip that and tell people, “How dare you be offended!” and you lost it. Not offending them doesn’t matter to you. And if it’s a racial minority that you don’t care not to offend, you’re going to be seen as racist. Not being racist means caring about the feelings of people of other races.** > > And, no, you can’t say it’s how you treat everyone. Because you’ve shown otherwise. You don’t go around deliberately offending people on this board. You freak out when you are offended. Some of you even defend other people against offense. But, in this case, you think that, because you aren’t offended, the offense of others don’t matter. How dare they not become mind-readers and figure out their intent? > > Hell, you’re probably offended now that I and some other people have dared lecture you about this. How dare we try to make the world a better place by helping you understand how racism works! And make no bones about it–this is how it works. They did, in fact, decide not to give out the t-shirts. Because it would have been offensive, no matter how much you argue that it shouldn’t be. > > I don’t know why we have to drag so many people kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It’s bad enough on more conservative sites like Reddit. I don’t get why it’s a problem on a liberal message board. Is it just because this board skews older? Is that why these weird patches of conservatism pop up, where the liberal side is in the minority? > > Sigh. We still have a long way to go. Great post – I bolded what I took as a particularly valuable assertion. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/197 "2016-02-04T18:25:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That kid may or may not be a racist, but he _said a racist thing_. We can never truly know someone’s intent – we can’t read minds – so it seems reasonable, to me, to call out actions and assertions that are racist (and teach that this is inappropriate), regardless of intent. Being a racist, or even saying racist things, isn’t a crime and shouldn’t be a crime – so I don’t think it can be compared to criminal acts (certain racist actions, like lynching or spraying hate speech on a church/synagogue are criminal acts, obviously). Of course we call it out. But his intent definitely matters - and we can probably figure out what his intent was too. And how we deal with it depends a great deal on his intent. A lack of racist intent doesn’t excuse. But it matters. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/198 "2016-02-04T18:26:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You guys are forgetting the thing that everyone jumped in to tell that guy who said something sexist about Gillian Anderson. **Intent ultimately does not matter when it comes to bigotry.** What matters is history, social perception, the perception of the target, and other such. > > If intent is what matters, then what’s wrong with a white kid saying “nigger” all the time on Xbox? He heard it online, and claims it just means “shitty person” and nothing about race. He has no intent of being racist. > > Yet I bet every single one of you would teach the kid not to say that word. Because the word is racist, whether the kid meant it to be or not. > Yes, it’s the Year of the Monkey. It makes perfect sense that they would hand out monkey t-shirts. But they also clearly know it’s Black History Month, _and are deliberately celebrating that_. And it’s in China, where racism against black people is more acceptable than in the West. It’s not remotely unreasonable to see the two as connected, even if they really weren’t. And the fact that such an interpretation is not unreasonable meant it was something they shouldn’t do. > > I don’t know why there exists a culture who want to skate up close to the line when it comes to racism. It’s like those kids I knew at church who would get as close as they could to (what we all considered) sin. And, just like in this thread, it inevitably resulted in people winding up crossing a line they never meant to cross. > > Pure intentions don’t take away a history of oppression. They at most give you a chance to go “Oops. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to do that. Let me fix things.” But that’s your chance. You skip that and tell people, “How dare you be offended!” and you lost it. Not offending them doesn’t matter to you. And if it’s a racial minority that you don’t care not to offend, you’re going to be seen as racist. Not being racist means caring about the feelings of people of other races. > > And, no, you can’t say it’s how you treat everyone. Because you’ve shown otherwise. You don’t go around deliberately offending people on this board. You freak out when you are offended. Some of you even defend other people against offense. But, in this case, you think that, because you aren’t offended, the offense of others don’t matter. How dare they not become mind-readers and figure out their intent? > > Hell, you’re probably offended now that I and some other people have dared lecture you about this. How dare we try to make the world a better place by helping you understand how racism works! And make no bones about it–this is how it works. They did, in fact, decide not to give out the t-shirts. Because it would have been offensive, no matter how much you argue that it shouldn’t be. > > I don’t know why we have to drag so many people kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It’s bad enough on more conservative sites like Reddit. I don’t get why it’s a problem on a liberal message board. Is it just because this board skews older? Is that why these weird patches of conservatism pop up, where the liberal side is in the minority? > > Sigh. We still have a long way to go. I disagree. I don’t believe a word can be racist. Hell, I’ve been called “nigger” at least a thousand times playing basketball in the south. Now I still think it’s a very ugly word and I don’t use it myself. But I’m pretty white. And to hear that word directed towards me consistently with no underlying meaning other than “dude” or whatever sort of convinced me that words and symbols do indeed depend on intent. Now all these so called SJWs may think otherwise but theyd be wrong. Now it may be anachronistic to think intent matters and context matters but I have my doubts. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/199 "2016-02-04T18:27:22Z")
And again… > **[\#1195; Parting Ways on Party Plans](http://wondermark.com/c1195/)** > > (Click to read the whole comic) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/200 "2016-02-04T18:28:53Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And again… > > [#1195; Parting Ways on Party Plans – Wondermark](http://wondermark.com/c1195/) That’s racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=11)