# Attention white people: ITS BLACK HISTORY MONTH. Think. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036 "2016-02-03T06:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/261 "2016-02-05T07:25:56Z")
Depends - is he fucking _you_? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/262 "2016-02-05T07:27:29Z")
What could be funnier than a bunch of very white boys singing: _“Here we come, walkin’ Down the street. We get the funniest looks from Ev’ry one we meet. Hey, hey, we’re the Monkees And people say we monkey around. But we’re too busy singing To put anybody down.”_ ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/263 "2016-02-05T09:12:58Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’ll tell you what I want you to do, and only if your not black. > > Walk through Harlem with that tee-shirt. > > Then let me know how much referring to black people as simians is “worn out” for you. Ah, so it is about the t-shirt, not the context. You think that black people upon randomly seeing a simple picture of a monkey on a t-shirt will become violent. You can’t grasp that not everybody immediately associates monkey with black person. Because not everybody is racist like you are. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/264 "2016-02-05T10:00:27Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Or maybe when a banana is thrown at a black athlete, it’s just because of a banana’s inherent aerodynamic properties. > [@bucketybuck](#): > > They are quite a good source of energy. [Appropriate response](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/9c/7d/f89c7dfd305a8320f8d88d2b1a14be36.jpg). > [@MrDibble](#): > > Depends - is he fucking _you_? Okay, I’m not taking sides here but that’s a quality burn. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/265 "2016-02-05T10:15:15Z")
I still believe it’s smart to bet on the black guy in athletics and semi-contact sports. On the white guy for full contact events. There’s money to be won. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/266 "2016-02-05T13:14:49Z")
Thanks for sharing, Larry King. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/267 "2016-02-05T13:26:18Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > No, you don’t. Thank you for trying to play dictator and tell me how I feel, but it’s really not necessary. I know how I feel, and I find his behavior and his demand very offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/268 "2016-02-05T13:54:59Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’ll tell you what I want you to do, and only if your not black. > > Walk through Harlem with that tee-shirt. > > Then let me know how much referring to black people as simians is “worn out” for you. Wow. A monkey shirt honoring Chinese New Year is racist, but this statement insinuating that black people will inevitably default to violence over said monkey shirt is not? I think you have the wires crossed on your racism meter. Also, you’d be just fine walking down the streets of Harlem wearing that shirt. I don’t know what movies you’ve seen, but you’d be just fine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/269 "2016-02-05T14:34:09Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I find his behavior and his demand very offensive. What “behaviour” would that be? The same “temper tantrum” you seem to have been the only witness to? Gotta keep feeding that Angry Black Man narrative, don’tchaknow… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/270 "2016-02-05T15:13:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Appropriate response](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/9c/7d/f89c7dfd305a8320f8d88d2b1a14be36.jpg). [Dani Alves is gonna eat this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQYzVsIWNEU), and he’s not even offended. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/271 "2016-02-05T15:15:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What “behaviour” would that be? The same “temper tantrum” you seem to have been the only witness to? > > Gotta keep feeding that Angry Black Man narrative, don’tchaknow… Since expressing my feelings is now throwing a temper tantrum, would you please be so kind to let me know what feelings I am allowed to have so I don’t step over the line again? If you will also please let me know which groups its okay to oppress and deny their holidays, I will make sure I am not offended when someone prevents them from creating a t-shirt that celebrates their holiday. Thank you in advance for your help. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/272 "2016-02-05T15:36:05Z")
If the OP hadn’t started off with a dramatic tone, would this thread be 6 pages? (Yeah, I know, but then it wouldn’t be in the Pit). Things are changing demographically and we have to share the future together. Demographics are changing, and change brings huge, huge tension. Acting like these conversations are silly or stupid doesn’t seem practical given where things are going. It is not surprising that there was a conversation about the T-Shirts. It sounds like it was thoughtful. If it was, then the outcome, whatever they might have decided, represents a move in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/273 "2016-02-05T15:54:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It sounds like a rather run-of-the-mill overreaction to me – language can be complicated, and misunderstandings are common. It ceased being run of the mill when someone lost their job over it. Yes, it was reversed, but it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. It shows how easy those things can happen. > [@](#): > > I think that’s ludicrous. “Hey, I think that thing you said sounds racist” is as bad as saying or doing something racist? Are you friggin’ serious? Racism leads to mass murder and slavery, along with things like Jim Crow, segregation, redlining, and much, much more. False accusations of racism can sometimes lead to bad things, sure, but nothing even close to mass murder and slavery, or Jim Crow and the rest. I was speaking in the context of racist comments, words or symbols vs. false accusations of racist comments, words or symbols. But there is grave damage done with false accusations too. They can lead to riots and murders, not to mention people losing their jobs. And of course, they lead to distrust and division, which only makes it harder to solve the larger racial issues. They shut down the conversation. > [@](#): > > If you don’t care how others perceive what you say, then I think we’re done here – this whole conversation is about how people perceive certain words and symbols. I care about not saying or doing racist things, and not saying or doing things that others might perceive as racist – if you don’t care about being perceived as racist, then feel free to not take my advice. My advice is only intended for people who don’t want to be perceived as racist. I don’t want to BE racist. As for perception, I didn’t say I don’t care if you perceive me as racist – I said I don’t care if you perceive me as DEFENSIVE about it. I find that too often is used as fallacious trap, like saying if you are defensive it means you have something to feel guilty about. Defensive people are often defensive because they are simply defending themselves from unfair attacks. It’s not fair to attack someone and then blame them for being defensive. > [@](#): > > I’ll add that, personally, I’ve seen no posts from you that I recall that seem racist to me in any way. Thanks for making that clear. Let me say that I know I have an aggressive discussion style, but it’s not personal. I’m just drawing out arguments and challenging other peoples’ opinions, and inviting others to challenge mine. It is part devil’s advocate. Thanks for putting up with it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/274 "2016-02-05T16:04:45Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > Since expressing my feelings is now throwing a temper tantrum Only in _your_ head, [apparently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19073965#post19073965). None of the news stories said anything about temper tantrums in relation to him raising objections (and they’re not shy about calling his on-court behaviour precisely that). But like I said, keep blowing that whistle… ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/275 "2016-02-05T16:22:15Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > No, you are ignorant and uninformed as to why its inappropriate to use simian imagery when it relates to a business that feature black players. Do some research, and get back to me, kid. I still can’t get over the fact that people are upset about a year of the monkey t-shirt but don’t care that the Suns’ mascot is a freaking gorilla in a basketball uniform. Here he is in a banana suit for additional offensiveness: > **[The Gorilla, the Suns mascot wears the a banana costume as the...](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-gorilla-the-suns-mascot-wears-the-a-banana-costume-as-news-photo/1974412)** > > The Gorilla, the Suns mascot wears the a banana costume as the motivates the fans to make some noise as the Phoenix Suns host the San Antonio Spurs in Game four of the Western Conference... ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/276 "2016-02-05T16:35:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Only in _your_ head, [apparently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19073965#post19073965). None of the news stories said anything about temper tantrums in relation to him raising objections (and they’re not shy about calling his on-court behaviour precisely that). But like I said, keep blowing that whistle… Fair point, I did say temper tantrum first. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/277 "2016-02-05T16:43:44Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I still can’t get over the fact that people are upset about a year of the monkey t-shirt but don’t care that the Suns’ mascot is a freaking gorilla in a basketball uniform. > > Here he is in a banana suit for additional offensiveness: > > [The Gorilla, the Suns mascot wears the a banana costume as the... News Photo - Getty Images](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-gorilla-the-suns-mascot-wears-the-a-banana-costume-as-news-photo/1974412) Yeah, there are actual racist things in sports to be offended by. The Cleveland Indians mascot is an abomination and the Redskins team name is beyond ridiculous. But, this? Trying to do something to include a burgeoning fan base in China? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/278 "2016-02-05T16:46:47Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It ceased being run of the mill when someone lost their job over it. Yes, it was reversed, but it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. It shows how easy those things can happen. I think overreactions like this, while unfortunate, are extremely common in politics. It shouldn’t have happened, but things like this are bound to happen from time to time. I’d prefer to err on the side of occasional overreactions then erring on the side of ignoring racism (with the obvious goal of zero errors) – more on that below. > [@](#): > > I was speaking in the context of racist comments, words or symbols vs. false accusations of racist comments, words or symbols. > > But there is grave damage done with false accusations too. They can lead to riots and murders, not to mention people losing their jobs. And of course, they lead to distrust and division, which only makes it harder to solve the larger racial issues. They shut down the conversation. I make my comparison based on history – historically, racism (and other types of bigotry) has caused slavery, mass murder, genocide, etc., on a massive scale. For centuries it was the norm, and man-made catastrophes caused by it were ubiquitous. The “body count” for false accusations of racism is miniscule compared to this, even if you’re just talking about rhetoric. I believe false accusations of racism are bad, but are no more than a hummingbird compared to the blue-whale of actual racism. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to BE racist. > > As for perception, I didn’t say I don’t care if you perceive me as racist – I said I don’t care if you perceive me as DEFENSIVE about it. I find that too often is used as fallacious trap, like saying if you are defensive it means you have something to feel guilty about. Defensive people are often defensive because they are simply defending themselves from unfair attacks. It’s not fair to attack someone and then blame them for being defensive. Okay. The “defensive” stuff I mean is things like “flinging shit about”, “you guys are the real racists”, “reverse racism”, and the like, any time someone points out something that they have a problem with in regards to racial insensitivity. We can go back to the topic of the thread – what’s wrong with what happened? Since lots of people probably don’t know about the Chinese New Year, it’s entirely predictable (and even reasonable, considering the history of racist imagery and monkeys) that many might view monkey t-shirts on the first day of BHM as problematic. It’s entirely reasonable that this viewpoint was addressed, and the shirts were withdrawn. But why were so many in this thread defensive about it? What was unfair about it? > [@](#): > > Thanks for making that clear. Let me say that I know I have an aggressive discussion style, but it’s not personal. I’m just drawing out arguments and challenging other peoples’ opinions, and inviting others to challenge mine. It is part devil’s advocate. Thanks for putting up with it. No problem. Still think you’re way wrong here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/279 "2016-02-05T16:46:53Z")
Well, I owe you all an apology for over-reacting to a partial news story. I did more research and they only pulled the t-shirt; they did continue with the rest of the celebration of the Chinese new year, including introducing players in Mandarin and the ribbon dance. Again, my apologies. Some day, I’ll learn to read more before reacting. Thanks **MrDibble** for calling me out and making me stop and think. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/280 "2016-02-05T16:48:27Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > Well, I owe you all an apology for over-reacting to a partial news story. I did more research and they only pulled the t-shirt; they did continue with the rest of the celebration of the Chinese new year, including introducing players in Mandarin and the ribbon dance. Again, my apologies. Some day, I’ll learn to read more before reacting. Thanks **MrDibble** for calling me out and making me stop and think. All praise and good on you! Thanks be to the Dope for helping to fight ignorance, and congratulations for being open enough to learn! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=15)