# Attention white people: ITS BLACK HISTORY MONTH. Think. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036 "2016-02-03T06:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/381 "2016-02-08T14:19:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “A few decades”, please :rolleyes: _If_ someone gets prison time, the average time in jail for a rape conviction in the US is [less than six years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape#Punishment_of_assailants). I was referring to a worst-case scenario. > [@](#): > > Mmmm, tough one…oh, wait, no, I’d rather not be raped, thanks. > Or rather, not raped _again_, lest you think I’m choosing between _two_ unknowns here. Thanks for the honest answer based on your real-life experience. You are in a unique position to answer this question so let me frame it this way - what would be worse than being raped? How many years in prison? If you could go back in time and choose a certain prison term to avoid being raped, would you? If so, for how long? This isn’t a rhetorical question, I really am interested in your answer. > [@](#): > > Oh, _do_ tell me more about how antiracists feel, _Bwana_… Okay. I’m a anti-racist and I believe many many potential allies of the cause are repelled or scared off by false accusations of racism. > [@](#): > > Not familiar with our resident Nordic fuckboy, are you? No. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/382 "2016-02-08T14:28:33Z")
I think the question at hand has been distorted. Asking “which is worse, a crime or false accusation” is an unfair and misleading question. Even if the crime is worse, that doesn’t mean a false accusation should be excused, or that it is inconsequential. Some people unfortunately like to construct it that way to excused false accusations. Some even do that while throwing in the concept of group responsibility or even revenge, such as belittling white people for complaining about false accusations since whites have benefited from real racism in the past. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/383 "2016-02-08T14:44:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I was referring to a worst-case scenario. Since the “worst-case scenario” for rape is being gang-raped for several days until you die from the damage, I’d still say rape is worse. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the honest answer based on your real-life experience. You are in a unique position to answer this question so let me frame it this way - what would be worse than being raped? Death, I guess. Torture, too. > [@](#): > > How many years in prison? Personally, I’d take life in prison over being raped. > [@](#): > > Okay. I’m a anti-racist Yeah, no. I don’t believe you actually are all that antiracist. You’re some flavour of concern troll.We’ve [had this convo before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18826006&postcount=308), and I believe you’re about as anti-racist as you are feminist. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/384 "2016-02-08T14:46:41Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I think the question at hand has been distorted. Asking “which is worse, a crime or false accusation” is an unfair and misleading question. > > Even if the crime is worse, that doesn’t mean a false accusation should be excused, or that it is inconsequential. Some people unfortunately like to construct it that way to excused false accusations. Some even do that while throwing in the concept of group responsibility or even revenge, such as belittling white people for complaining about false accusations since whites have benefited from real racism in the past. Here, wait, let me just take a sip from this mug labeled “White Tears”, while I work up some concern… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/385 "2016-02-08T15:33:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Since the “worst-case scenario” for rape is being gang-raped for several days until you die from the damage, I’d still say rape is worse. Fair enough. > [@](#): > > Death, I guess. Torture, too.Personally, I’d take life in prison over being raped. Okay. Glad we have your unique input. We really should ask someone who’s in prison for life for a false accusation too though, but I don’t know anyone like that. > [@](#): > > Yeah, no. I don’t believe you actually are all that antiracist. You’re some flavour of concern troll. I don’t give a fuck what you think I am. > [@](#): > > We’ve [had this convo before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18826006&postcount=308), and I believe you’re about as anti-racist as you are feminist. I’m not here to convince you of anything. I know what I think and believe. Your attitude is what’s wrong with the debate about race. Too many people are concerned with proving they aren’t racist, or proving others are, and not enough people are actually talking in a productive way about the issues without fear of that. It’s not a contest where you try to trap someone. If that’s all you’re here for, I’m not interested. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/386 "2016-02-08T15:34:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Here, wait, let me just take a sip from this mug labeled “White Tears”, while I work up some concern… EXACTLY. Thanks for proving my point perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/387 "2016-02-08T15:39:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m happy making the statement that being made to have sex without consent is always worse than being accused of making someone have sex without their consent. Always? Bear in mind that there was a long period in recent American history in which, if you had the wrong skin color, being accused of raping someone who had the right skin color would result in being tortured to death by a posse with the mayor and the sheriff leading the charge. And I know it seems somehow patronizing or “mansplaining” for me to say so, but some rapes are not as bad as others, as you yourself acknowledged when you said > [@](#): > > Since the “worst-case scenario” for rape is being gang-raped for several days until you die from the damage There being a worst-case scenario necessarily implies that there’s also a best-case scenario, or possibly a least-bad-case-scenario. I don’t have any particular opinion about whatever larger issue is being discussed here, but I definitely think your position on this one point is overly absolute. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/388 "2016-02-08T18:19:52Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I wasn’t insulted, just gay people. How so? And don’t you have monkeys to hide? Wouldn’t want black people to rampage. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/389 "2016-02-08T18:22:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > There is arguably a fine line between satire and trolling. If you stand on it and squint, you can just make out **Rune** far off in the distance, thumbing his nose at the moderators. So your saying the pit only welcomes a certain type of jackass? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/390 "2016-02-08T18:33:27Z")
Your place is assured, if that’s what concerns you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/391 "2016-02-08T18:49:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Your place is assured, if that’s what concerns you. Front page [nytimes.com](http://nytimes.com) there is a monkey! Assemble the SJL we need to act before black people tear down the internet. And I saw a Confederate flag at the super bowl! I’m surprised a mass shooting didn’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/392 "2016-02-08T22:51:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Front page [nytimes.com](http://nytimes.com) there is a monkey! Assemble the SJL we need to act before black people tear down the internet. > > And I saw a Confederate flag at the super bowl! I’m surprised a mass shooting didn’t follow. The depressing part is that you honestly think you’re witty, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/393 "2016-02-09T08:42:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How so? > > And don’t you have monkeys to hide? Wouldn’t want black people to rampage. Shut up. Thine name is Ass. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/394 "2016-02-09T10:36:48Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > We really should ask someone who’s in prison for life for a false accusation too though, but I don’t know anyone like that. First, find people who is actually in prison _for life_ (for just rape), then find the ones who are there _just_ on victim testimony, then you can write to those , ooh, doubtless _tens_ of _thousands_ of rape-lifer inmates, I’m sure you can find the _100s_ who’ll tell you they’re innocent…:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I don’t give a fuck what you think I am. _Sure_ you don’t give a fuck. I always expend fucking vitriol when\* I\* don’t give a fuck… > [@](#): > > I’m not here to convince you of anything. I know what I think and believe. So do I, since you make it so obvious - that’s why you only _ever_ come into anti-racism threads to tell vocal _anti-racists_ what _they’re_ doing wrong. > [@](#): > > Your attitude is what’s wrong with the debate about race. The fact that you think there’s a _debate_ to be had, is why I know you’re not a genuine anti-racist. That’s not me trying to trap you, that’s you outing yourself every time you make another “Don’t be so Angry, Angry Black Man” post. I called it when I said you’re a concern troll - take your concern and shove it up your fake ally ass… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/395 "2016-02-09T10:44:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > EXACTLY. Thanks for proving my point perfectly. Your point is that I’m not here to play nice with racists _and their enablers_? Sure, you finally get it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/396 "2016-02-09T11:44:57Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Always? Bear in mind that there was a long period in recent American history in which, if you had the wrong skin color, being accused of raping someone who had the right skin color would result in being tortured to death by a posse with the mayor and the sheriff leading the charge. Having\* consensual sex\* with a White woman could have the same outcome - so it’s not the rape accusation that’s really the risk there, is it? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/397 "2016-02-09T14:01:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > First, find people who is actually in prison _for life_ (for just rape), Easily found on Google. First hit of several: > **[Baltimore man gets life in prison for woman's rape](https://www.wbaltv.com/article/baltimore-man-gets-life-in-prison-for-woman-s-rape/7084539)** > > A Baltimore man has been sentenced to life in prison for raping a woman inside her Mount Vernon apartment in 2011. > [@](#): > > then find the ones who are there _just_ on victim testimony, False accusations aren’t just about victim testimony. Funny how this has now crossed back into the original issue, which was race. Many black men are in prison, or have been released after serving many years, for rapes or other crimes they didn’t commit. > [@](#): > > The fact that you think there’s a _debate_ to be had, Here is the crux of the issue. You think this is a contest. You think that this is about rape victims vs. the falsely accused. You are afraid that if the falsely accused get any sympathy, that somehow makes real victims of rape less of victims, or real rapists less guilty. One can - in fact, one must - treat them as independent cases. Nobody should judge a falsely accused rapist based on any other concerns. Just as nobody should judge the claims of an alleged rape victim based on the fact that there are falsely accused rapists out there. The fact that an accused rapist is found to be innocent and goes free does not make a guilty rapist less guilty or a victim less victimized somewhere. It’s not a race. Avoiding false accusations of rape is not going to hurt real victims of rape. In fact, it helps them. I’ve ignored your other comments. This is not about me, and I already don’t give a fuck what you think of me. I know who I am and what I believe. I’m no longer surprised when telling someone they shouldn’t be angry at me just makes them angrier. It’s a huge disappointment after all. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/398 "2016-02-09T14:05:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Your point is that I’m not here to play nice with racists _and their enablers_? Sure, you finally get it. No, my point is that angry people like to take their anger out on innocents, based just on their race. Which is racism too, of course. And I’ve noticed that since it is people like me, who have sympathy for the cause, who are most likely to be discussing the issue honestly, they are most often hit with that. And since they sympathize, they are shocked by it. The racists are not so naive. They know they are racists, and they know they can’t talk about racism with black people. They avoid it. Of course, the sympathizers who get attacked also learn to avoid it too. That’s not conducive to progress. Now, the fact that you think I’m a racist enabler when I’m nothing of the sort demonstrates that we need to talk much much more about this. But that’s awful difficult if you insist on doing all the talking, or rather, yelling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/399 "2016-02-09T15:18:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Easily found on Google. First hit of several: > > [Baltimore man gets life in prison for woman's rape](http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/baltimore-man-gets-life-in-prison-for-womans-rape/23811800) Fail: "A Baltimore City jury convicted Walker of rape, sex offense, **assault** , perverted practice and reckless endangerment " What did I say again? “just rape”, I believe it was… > [@](#): > > False accusations aren’t just about victim testimony. Well, are you talking about manufactured evidence? What else is there? > [@](#): > > You think this is a contest. You think that this is about rape victims vs. the falsely accused. You are afraid that if the falsely accused get any sympathy, that somehow makes real victims of rape less of victims, or real rapists less guilty. Nope, that’s not it. > [@](#): > > One can - in fact, one must - treat them as independent cases. But they’re not, and can’t be. > [@](#): > > I’m no longer surprised when telling someone they shouldn’t be angry at me just makes them angrier. Go figure… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/400 "2016-02-09T15:28:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fail: > "A Baltimore City jury convicted Walker of rape, sex offense, **assault** , perverted practice and reckless endangerment " > > What did I say again? > > “just rape”, I believe it was… Whatever. I’m not going to play this game with you about how much prison time someone has to have before it’s wrong to falsely imprison them. > [@](#): > > Nope, that’s not it. I’d say it is. There’s no other way to explain why you would so vehemently react to the idea that we shouldn’t falsely imprison innocent people. Now, if you reacted that way because you thought I was linking the two, I’ve just explained that this isn’t true. So we can move on. > [@](#): > > But they’re not, and can’t be. So now you admit it. The idea that we should judge people guilty or innocent based on what other people have done is absurd, unfair, and contrary to every principle of our legal system. It is also the logic behind racism and sexism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=21)