# Attention white people: ITS BLACK HISTORY MONTH. Think. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036 "2016-02-03T06:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/161 "2016-02-04T14:07:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so I’ll add that when someone says something totally ludicrous and beyond reason, then I have no problem with questioning or disputing that. I figured stuff like that could be left unsaid (especially since I’ve said “in general” or similar, not “always”). But if you are white, male and straight, how do you know they are ludicrous or beyond reason when it comes to racism et. al.? Don’t the women, blacks or gays know better than you about that? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/162 "2016-02-04T14:09:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll try to learn – what did I say or do that makes them think this? Maybe I made a mistake. I’m not immune to this sort of thing – I don’t think anyone is. If, ultimately, I determine that they’re being ridiculous, then I’ll ignore them… but I think this is rare (being mistaken doesn’t necessarily mean they’re being ridiculous). MAYBE you made a mistake? They know more about this than you do, right, so how can it possibly not be your mistake? Okay, I think I’ve made my point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/163 "2016-02-04T14:10:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But if you are white, male and straight, how do you know they are ludicrous or beyond reason when it comes to racism et. al.? Don’t the women, blacks or gays know better than you about that? And what if two of them disagree? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/164 "2016-02-04T14:11:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But if you are white, male and straight, how do you know they are ludicrous or beyond reason when it comes to racism et. al.? Don’t the women, blacks or gays know better than you about that? > [@](#): > > MAYBE you made a mistake? They know more about this than you do, right, so how can it possibly not be your mistake? > > Okay, I think I’ve made my point. They probably do, on average, but that doesn’t mean always. You’ve made your point about missing all the times when I said “in general”, and other not-always qualifiers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/165 "2016-02-04T14:12:07Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > For some reason, some white people forget the significance of February 1st more than they figure out it is April Fool’s Day after they realize news their dog died was a cruel prank: > > [http://www.sacbee.com/sports/article57856573.html](http://www.sacbee.com/sports/article57856573.html) > > A friggin’ MONKEY on a tee-shirt for a almost all black basketball team, ON the first (or second, does it matter) day of Black History Month? Of course, it took a black Sacramento Kings player to point out just how this might be POSSIBLY taken the wrong way, because Im sure no white player or staff member thought twice of it. Sooo…is the player going to be in a snit all year long? Because that was the whole thing about the shirts - they were celebrating the Year of the Monkey in the Chinese zodiac calendar. It has been my experience, reconfirmed every day, that the first person who makes an issue of skin color is usually quite bigoted. Skin color is meaningless unless you are giving a physical description of someone. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/166 "2016-02-04T14:17:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t accept that “white people already knew” that. Her response was entirely reasonable, and the only possible way she could be expected to “learn” such a thing was by experience. Of course white people already knew how they treated other people. Of course they knew that they didn’t have racist intent when they treated her the same as they treated other white people. > [@](#): > > I think it’s a bit different – white people might know more, on average, about something like _hearing white people make anti-black racist comments in private_, but I think small things like that are of far lesser importance, when it comes to understanding the real effects of racism, than actually experiencing racism. Not nothing, but of significantly less significance. I’m not sure it’s less significant. In the case I described, white people knew vastly more. When it comes to what white people think or their intent, they know everything and a black person knows less - and when you take that to the individual level, only a given person can know what he/she is thinking and nobody can read their mind or discern their intent. > [@](#): > > I’ve never said whites can have “no knowledge” of the subject, or even that blacks “always” have better knowledge (though I’ve said I believe that they usually do). I’m sure there are some armchair military geniuses who might happen to know more about desert warfare then some Iraq war veterans. And there are probably some soldiers who didn’t learn anything during their service, or learned the wrong things, and know less about some aspect of desert warfare than an average armchair military historian. Of course. But the analogy doesn’t work because this isn’t just about one side. Racism involves both a victim and a racist (or an alleged victim and alleged racist). Both have knowledge that matters. Intent matters. > [@](#): > > But I seriously doubt (and I recommend folks serious doubt this for themselves) that I am some sort of armchair racism genius, or that the individual black person I happen to be talking to at the time is very ignorant, so in general I will avoid any assumption that I know better about anti-black racism. I recommend the same for others. When a black person is telling me about the way they interpreted some incident as racism, then I will just listen, and I will refrain from telling them they are wrong. I might give my opinion, but this will be heavily qualified by my own lack of experience in experiencing racism. And that’s perfectly reasonable. Just don’t extend that too far. > [@](#): > > The only time that I would feel no problem about “explaining” something would be on an issue like the one mentioned above – if a black person wondered what white people say about black people in private, or stated something about this that was contrary to my experience, then I would share my own experiences freely. And there you go - sometimes accusations of racism involve what white people think, or say in private. Pretty much all of them do, in fact. So I’m glad you agree that it’s okay to share your own experiences freely. One such experience might be “white people don’t consider X to be racist at all so it’s not reasonable to claim it has racist intent or that they should be responsible for your feelings.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/167 "2016-02-04T14:18:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They probably do, on average, but that doesn’t mean always. > > You’ve made your point about missing all the times when I said “in general”, and other not-always qualifiers. 🙂 No, I’ve drawn out the qualifiers. I see them quite well. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/168 "2016-02-04T14:19:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And what if two of them disagree? They talk about it - without a presumption that one side is automatically right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/169 "2016-02-04T14:24:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Of course white people already knew how they treated other people. Not in relation to her expectations. > [@](#): > > Of course they knew that they didn’t have racist intent when they treated her the same as they treated other white people. > > I’m not sure it’s less significant. In the case I described, white people knew vastly more. When it comes to what white people think or their intent, they know everything and a black person knows less - and when you take that to the individual level, only a given person can know what he/she is thinking and nobody can read their mind or discern their intent. > > Of course. But the analogy doesn’t work because this isn’t just about one side. Racism involves both a victim and a racist (or an alleged victim and alleged racist). Both have knowledge that matters. Intent matters. I don’t think anyone can know with certainty whether they “have racist intent” or not. Most “racist intent” is probably subconscious. I don’t believe anyone can know with certainty whether they’re treating people “the same” or not – they can only know what they’re trying. I strive not to be racist, and to treat people equally, but I’ll never be able to know with certainty that I’m always succeeding. > [@](#): > > And that’s perfectly reasonable. Just don’t extend that too far. > > And there you go - sometimes accusations of racism involve what white people think, or say in private. Pretty much all of them do, in fact. So I’m glad you agree that it’s okay to share your own experiences freely. One such experience might be “white people don’t consider X to be racist at all so it’s not reasonable to claim it has racist intent or that they should be responsible for your feelings.” White people in the US have a history of not considering things to be racist that are racist – our track record is really, really bad at this stuff. In light of this, I would refrain from disputing it in such a way, and look much more for solutions (like “maybe this isn’t the right time or place for that symbol on the T-shirt” or “maybe we can present it in a different way so that it won’t be perceived like this”) then snap to the defense. Considering the use of racist imagery in American history, it’s entirely reasonable for someone to be worried that a monkey symbol _might_ be meant as a racist symbol (or just _might be perceived_ as so), and advocate for presenting the idea in a different way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/170 "2016-02-04T14:29:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Is the OP the black people spokesperson? > > Are they even black? > > If people want to beat up on the OP, I guess have it? But no one should be using that as an excuse to launch into a tirade about black people. Or their celebrations. Or their reactions to racism in general. > > I’m guessing most of the posters in this thread didn’t even know this was the year of the monkey. Based on some of the reactions here, you’d think folks have monkey mommas or something. People need to stop getting worked up in a froth over shit that ain’t got nothing to do with them and that ultimatey doesn’t harm anyone. No one is asking anyone in this thread to wear a monkey shirt while dribbling a basketball up and down the courts. So why should they care if a person who is directly impacted by this has decided he isn’t getting paid enough for that kind of thing, and his employer is nice enough to oblige him? If black people need to get a life for having a negative reaction towards certain things, then white people need to get a life for having a negative reaction every time black people have a negative reaction. It’s a feedback loop of manufactured outrage. It’s incredibly stupid. It is fine to just not have an opinion about stuff sometimes. Forgot to respond to this earlier – [here is my response](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753598). ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/171 "2016-02-04T14:36:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not in relation to her expectations. Her expectations were not the point. They were wrong. White people were right about what white people think, and she didn’t understand that and misinterpreted it as racism. > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone can know with certainty whether they “have racist intent” or not. Most “racist intent” is probably subconscious. I don’t believe anyone can know with certainty whether they’re treating people “the same” or not – they can only know what they’re trying. No, I would say racist intent is not subconcious. Intent is a concsious act. Now, you can argue that people may act contrary to their intent, subconciously, and that’s a legitimate discussion, but it’s not the same thing at all. The point is that it isn’t DELIBERATE. Sure, a black person may still have reason to complain, but the implications of subconscious racism are very different. They require further discussion. A racist pig who hates blacks and knows he hates blacks is just a racist pig. > [@](#): > > I strive not to be racist, and to treat people equally, but I’ll never be able to know with certainty that I’m always succeeding. Agreed. But that certainly doesn’t mean that a black person (or anyone) knows your subconcious better than you do. > [@](#): > > White people in the US have a history of not considering things to be racist that are racist – our track record is really, really bad at this stuff. That’s the heart of the question - IS something racist if a white person doesn’t think it is? Maybe, maybe not. And as my example shows, sometimes percieved racism isn’t. > [@](#): > > In light of this, I would refrain from disputing it in such a way, and look much more for solutions (like “maybe this isn’t the right time or place for that symbol on the T-shirt” or “maybe we can present it in a different way so that it won’t be perceived like this”) then snap to the defense. I couldn’t agree more. But the contrary is also required - blacks should not snap to the offense and declare every slight “racist!” before that discussion can occur. > [@](#): > > Considering the use of racist imagery in American history, it’s entirely reasonable for someone to be worried that a monkey symbol _might_ be meant as a racist symbol (or just _might be perceived_ as so), and advocate for presenting the idea in a different way. I agree. My point is that it requires further discussion - it is not automatically racist. And you seem to agree. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/172 "2016-02-04T14:44:52Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Her expectations were not the point. They were wrong. White people were right about what white people think, and she didn’t understand that and misinterpreted it as racism. > > No, I would say racist intent is not subconcious. Intent is a concsious act. Now, you can argue that people may act contrary to their intent, subconciously, and that’s a legitimate discussion, but it’s not the same thing at all. The point is that it isn’t DELIBERATE. Sure, a black person may still have reason to complain, but the implications of subconscious racism are very different. They require further discussion. A racist pig who hates blacks and knows he hates blacks is just a racist pig. Her expectations were reasonable, and it’s not reasonable to expect that she just take the word of her colleagues – if they were treating her differently, I seriously doubt that they would admit it, or even know it. I think the vast majority of racism, especially now, is like this – people don’t know they’re doing it, and don’t know that they’re treating people differently. Such suspicion is entirely warranted, and it’s not reasonable that they should take the word of the people they are suspicious of. > [@](#): > > Agreed. But that certainly doesn’t mean that a black person (or anyone) knows your subconcious better than you do. Considering the possibility of deception (and self-deception), I think it’s more reasonable to expect black people to follow their instincts and expectations, than take the word of newly-introduced white people. > [@](#): > > That’s the heart of the question - IS something racist if a white person doesn’t think it is? Maybe, maybe not. And as my example shows, sometimes percieved racism isn’t. Absolutely – discussion is good. But like **monstro** says, a knee-jerk negative reaction to another reaction (i.e. ‘you’re just flinging shit if you call that racist!’ or ‘why do you always assume everything is racist’) is still unwarranted, and still as negative as any other knee-jerk, unthinking reaction. > [@](#): > > I couldn’t agree more. > > But the contrary is also required - blacks should not snap to the offense and declare every slight “racist!” before that discussion can occur. This almost never occurs, in my experience. It’s much more likely to start with something like “Hey, I’m troubled by this and concerned that it might be racist”, and then after that someone says “quit flinging shit and calling everything racist!” or “that’s reverse-racist!” or some other dreck. It seems to me that this thread has gone that way too – the initial concerns were presented pretty reasonably, it seems to me, and responded to (by some) with knee-jerk accusations. > [@](#): > > I agree. My point is that it requires further discussion - it is not automatically racist. And you seem to agree. Yep, but how these things are approached matters, in my view. I think it’s (usually) best to assume that someone has good reason for their concern about something, especially when it’s about something that they necessarily have way more personal experience with than you, and approach it from that angle. Ask questions and learn, rather than presume to explain and teach, in such a case (usually and in general and not always!). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/173 "2016-02-04T14:46:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No, I’ve drawn out the qualifiers. I see them quite well. What does this mean? You think I mean “always” when I say “in general”? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/174 "2016-02-04T14:54:08Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I think what makes me angriest is the way this one person was able to trod all over the traditions of millions of other people just because he had a temper tantrum. Would you characterise him as … uppity? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/175 "2016-02-04T14:54:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Her expectations were reasonable, and it’s not reasonable to expect that she just take the word of her colleagues – if they were treating her differently, I seriously doubt that they would admit it, or even know it. I don’t think you get the situation. They were simply going about their business. She thought it was racist. It wasn’t. She found out it wasn’t. What more is there to say? Her knowledge of racism was mistaken in this case. > [@](#): > > I think the vast majority of racism, especially now, is like this – people don’t know they’re doing it, and don’t know that they’re treating people differently. Such suspicion is entirely warranted, and it’s not reasonable that they should take the word of the people they are suspicious of. But in the scenario I described, they were NOT treating people differently. That’s the point. She didn’t just hear them say so, she observed it. > [@](#): > > Considering the possibility of deception (and self-deception), I think it’s more reasonable to expect black people to follow their instincts and expectations, than take the word of newly-introduced white people. Can’t blacks be deceived or self-decieved too? > [@](#): > > Absolutely – discussion is good. But like **monstro** says, a knee-jerk negative reaction to another reaction (i.e. ‘you’re just flinging shit if you call that racist!’ or ‘why do you always assume everything is racist’) is still unwarranted, and still as negative as any other knee-jerk, unthinking reaction. Yes - knee-jerk reactions or presumptions are unwarranted. > [@](#): > > This almost never occurs, in my experience. It’s much more likely to start with something like “Hey, I’m troubled by this and concerned that it might be racist”, and then after that someone says “quit flinging shit and calling everything racist!” or “that’s reverse-racist!” or some other dreck. It seems to me that this thread has gone that way too – the initial concerns were presented pretty reasonably, it seems to me, and responded to (by some) with knee-jerk accusations. Perhaps it doesn’t occur personally to you, but it happens ALL THE TIME out in the real world. Maybe your are sheltered by living in a mostly white community though.😉 > [@](#): > > Yep, but how these things are approached matters, in my view. I think it’s (usually) best to assume that someone has good reason for their concern about something, especially when it’s about something that they necessarily have way more personal experience with than you, and approach it from that angle. Ask questions and learn, rather than presume to explain and teach, in such a case (usually and in general and not always!). I think it’s best to assume nothing. Respecting someone’s opinion and feelings doesn’t require you to presume they are right until proven wrong. But yes, ask questions, discuss, respect. And also expect that from others. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/176 "2016-02-04T14:55:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Would you characterise him as … uppity? If he says no, will you accept that and move on, or will you try new bait? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/177 "2016-02-04T15:06:53Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t think you get the situation. > > They were simply going about their business. She thought it was racist. It wasn’t. She found out it wasn’t. What more is there to say? Her knowledge of racism was mistaken in this case. > > But in the scenario I described, they were NOT treating people differently. That’s the point. She didn’t just hear them say so, she observed it. Right – she learned in the only reasonable way, by experience. That’s what should have happened, and it’s what did happen. Her “knowledge of racism” wasn’t mistaken – her analysis of her new experiences may have been, but more experience helped solve this. > [@](#): > > Can’t blacks be deceived or self-decieved too? Sure, but when it comes to anti-black racism in America, black people have a remarkably good track record (in general) of being honest and accurate, and white people have a remarkably poor track record, in general. > [@](#): > > Yes - knee-jerk reactions or presumptions are unwarranted. > > Perhaps it doesn’t occur personally to you, but it happens ALL THE TIME out in the real world. Maybe your are sheltered by living in a mostly white community though.😉 I’ve heard others say this, but when I’ve read further about the incidents in question, it usually turns out to be much closer to “reasonable concerns expressed” and “those reasonable concerns responded to with knee-jerk accusations of reverse-racism or the like” then “knee-jerk accusation of anti-black racism” that’s responded to with reasonable questions, by my understanding. It’s not just about what happens to me, but what I’ve read about (including on this board) and learned from talking to others. > [@](#): > > I think it’s best to assume nothing. Respecting someone’s opinion and feelings doesn’t require you to presume they are right until proven wrong. But yes, ask questions, discuss, respect. And also expect that from others. You don’t have to presume they are right, but I recommend (in such a scenario) that you _do not_ presume that you are right and they are wrong, and try to explain this to them in that way. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/178 "2016-02-04T15:20:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right – she learned in the only reasonable way, by experience. That’s what should have happened, and it’s what did happen. Her “knowledge of racism” wasn’t mistaken – her analysis of her new experiences may have been, but more experience helped solve this. I’d say it’s fair to say that her knowledge of racism was mistaken and her new experiences perfected that knowledge. But that’s semantics. The point is that blacks aren’t always right about perceived racism because they aren’t always in a position to know it best. > [@](#): > > Sure, but when it comes to anti-black racism in America, black people have a remarkably good track record (in general) of being honest and accurate, and white people have a remarkably poor track record, in general. Track records are irrelevant to whether a given, particular claim is honest or accurate. > [@](#): > > I’ve heard others say this, but when I’ve read further about the incidents in question, it usually turns out to be much closer to “reasonable concerns expressed” and “those reasonable concerns responded to with knee-jerk accusations of reverse-racism or the like” then “knee-jerk accusation of anti-black racism” that’s responded to with reasonable questions, by my understanding. It’s not just about what happens to me, but what I’ve read about (including on this board) and learned from talking to others. I have seen that too. However, I have also seen outrageous, ridiculous accusations of racism. > [@](#): > > You don’t have to presume they are right, but I recommend (in such a scenario) that you _do not_ presume that you are right and they are wrong, and try to explain this to them in that way. I’m glad we agree. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/179 "2016-02-04T15:33:55Z")
Hi. White, middle-aged, often ashamed, speaking. Racism is such an odd thing. It is a hydra of a disease, omnipresent, but never manifesting in exactly the same way twice. There are white people who championed civil rights for Black Americans, some risking their social standing, financial stability, and even their lives to do so, who lived and died never really believing in the intellectual and moral equality of the other race. Then there are the poker players, who have declared racism over after 400 years, and now that they have all the chips, pull out a fresh deck and say “NOW let’s play fair, because to give my opponent any kind of advantage would just be WRONG!” Then are the White people who actually grew up with Black people and believe in inherent equality because commercial and government interests accidentally treated them equally (i.e., badly), but were filled with racial resentment at antipoverty programs that seemed to be targeted at Black Americans, even though their neighbors didn’t seem to be any better off. And poor and middle-class Whites who did not get to know Black people, but learned the idealized version of American history, and were gung-ho for equality, who were hopeful but were suddenly disillusioned by an encounter with a Black person who didn’t live up to their expectations. Don’t know which I am, but do know I am not free of racism and that all the tropes of fairness I’ve been taught don’t matter. If I am confronted with a man bearing 350 years’ worth of wounds that I, my father and grandfather and great-grandfather inflicted I don’t poke him with a stick, however gently, and tell him he shouldn’t be so sensitive. Similarly, my experience does not inform me that a man who complains that I’m stepping on his foot is really stepping on mine: that’s just stupid reflexive self-righteousness. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036/180 "2016-02-04T15:34:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’d say it’s fair to say that her knowledge of racism was mistaken and her new experiences perfected that knowledge. But that’s semantics. The point is that blacks aren’t always right about perceived racism because they aren’t always in a position to know it best. Not always, just most of the time. > [@](#): > > Track records are irrelevant to whether a given, particular claim is honest or accurate. I think they’re relevant to how we should examine and treat individual claims. > [@](#): > > I have seen that too. However, I have also seen outrageous, ridiculous accusations of racism. I’m sure those exist, and I’ve probably seen them, but in my experience they’re a lot more rare than actual reasonable concerns and suspicions (even if some of those may have been mistaken). Would you agree that the concerns of the black singer in your story were reasonable, even if they may not have been true? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attention-white-people-its-black-history-month-think/745036.md?page=10)