# attitudes of cops. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155 "2010-08-23T14:25:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/21 "2010-08-23T16:10:15Z")
Obviously, because you’re black. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/22 "2010-08-23T16:17:16Z")
I’ll step in to say only that police attitudes are usually the result of police training - a factor that seldom-to-never enters into discussions about community relations. Modern policing, for good or ill, is paramilitary in nature; the focus is off community and on criminality. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/23 "2010-08-23T16:24:14Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > He’s an ex-cop. No I’m not. I’m still a cop. I took a full retirement from a department after 25 years. But like a lot of retired cops I took a part-time position with another agency. Fully sworn, uniform, authority, gun, badge, etc.. I just work 8-16 hours a week instead of 40. The extra income is a nice supplement to my pension. So while I am a retired police officer, I am not an “ex”-cop. Now why don’t you go and read a little bit between the lines and read some of my posts again. While I am not giving you legal advice, I did say what I would do if it was me. I.E., go after the officers equipment, impeach his testimony as to what he thinks he saw, etc.. These defenses have a far better chance of getting someone off than the “yeah I did it but…” excuses you’re proposing. How oblivious can you be? If I were half the dick you’re claiming I am, would I have given you these clues that are to your advantage in court? Duh! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/24 "2010-08-23T16:29:03Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > OK. I’ll explain it one more time. > > Exit off interstate (posted 75MPH). Two lane divided highway (four total lanes), posted 55 for about 3 miles. Average speed of all cars (off of interstate): 65. > Two lanes merge down to one. People in ending-lane race to get in front (not me) and behind. > Not more than 150 feet from becoming a single lane, this one-lane becomes the right-hand exit-only lane of a 3-lane highway. Distance between merging of one-lane into 3 and no-escape exit for right-hand lane: 300 feet. > I have to merge completely LEFT across two lanes of fast-approaching rear traffic, with someone tailgating me from the previous merge-to-one-lane. > > Rather than hit the brakes and get rear-ended, I sped up to safely merge with the on-coming traffic. > > Is that so freakin’ hard to understand? What’s so hard to understand is your explanation. You say that three lanes merge into one, and suddenly that one lane is an exit-lane for a three-lane highway? WTF does that mean? Did the other two lanes suddenly appear out of nowhere? If you were in the exit lane and didn’t want to, you had to move over one lane. If you were in the left-most lane, you had to move over two lanes at most to exit. So, why don’t you try again? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/25 "2010-08-23T16:31:18Z")
Without a doubt, there are assholes, and power hungry corrupt assholes, in Law Enforcement. There are in any field of endeavor. In other fields, god help you if they become your manager (which they usually and unfortunately do). But some of the attitude, over the long run, comes from dealing with the public. People who don’t respect any form of authority, don’t obey rules or laws, and get all hot and bothered because you (as police, security, manager, owner, whoever is being injured by their behavior) dares to question their right to fuck you or someone else over and walk away. Because people are caught red handed driving 67 in a 55 and think YOU are being the asshole for ticketing them and you should go off and arrest someone for a real crime. Because they just feel like being a loudmouthed punk and dare you to do anything about it. Because they spit in your face when you call them on their crimes. I spent four years in Security, and I saw all of this, from college kids swearing in my co-workers faces and claiming we had no power over them, to people trying to steal money from an ARMED guard and then acting like we were somehow at fault for having the money, to people starting fights with multiple other people and then claiming that we were racists because we ejected them from the building. People are stupid, cruel and selfish. People are fucking psychos who NEVER believe they are at fault for anything, no matter how poorly they behave. People have incredible hatred of authority and authority figures which excuses their absolute ASSHOLISH behavior and projects it on the people trying to stop them from fucking over other, better people. And of course, Police Officers, being the lowest and most visible level of that public authority, get tremendous amounts of shit from these mentally and emotionally damaged assholes. So on the other side, if you personally have to deal with this bullshit for 10, 20, 40 years, it is very easy to see how it would come to dominate and ruin your entire outlook on Humanity. How you would simply come to expect it from everyone, and immediately act with annoyance and disrespect when you hear or see even the slightest whiff of it. I’m not saying that’s right or healthy, I’m just saying that it is entirely Expected Behavior (to use a tech support term) given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Duggy\_Fizzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Duggy\_Fizzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duggy_Fizzle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/26 "2010-08-23T16:50:55Z")
I don’t think **pkbites** was giving you attitude. What he was doing was what all cops learn very early: give factual answers whether people like it or not - it hurts a lot less in the long run. He gave you explanations why you would be found guilty and what the judge will say. I agree with what he said, and I don’t think he was being snarky about it. On a side note, part of the reasons that cops have the “attitude” as you say is because so few people step up and take responsibility for their actions. You clearly admitted you were speeding 17 mph over the speed limit, yet you want to fight it. When I pull someone over for speeding and they admit it and seem genuinely sorry for it, I almost always give them a warning. As soon as someone denies what I saw with my very own eyes, the chances for a warning get slim. It gets old listening to people proclaiming their innocence or that _they_ are the victim, when they clearly are not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/27 "2010-08-23T16:56:26Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How oblivious can you be? If I were half the dick you’re claiming I am, would I have given you these clues that are to your advantage in court? > > Duh! Well, it serves you right for not being a dick! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/28 "2010-08-23T16:58:15Z")
> [@Duggy\_Fizzle](#): > > … When I pull someone over for speeding and they admit it and seem genuinely sorry for it, I almost always give them a warning. … My retired cop friend told me never to admit to a cop that I was speeding or violating any traffic law, and in particular don’t give them a number if asked, “Do you know how fast you were going?” That is an overt admission of guilt, and the cop can note it down, and then any arguments you may want to make later about the accuracy of the gun, etc., are moot. It is a confession and the cop can use it against you. She also said “Don’t lie”, but that’s way different from admitting that you violated the traffic law. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/29 "2010-08-23T17:00:42Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > I started a thread a week or so ago asking for advice and experiences with traffic court and fighting a ticket. 99% of them were helpful and kind about it. > > [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=575092) Yeah, I think a better OP in that thread would have been “Please give me support and encouragement while I try to fight a speeding ticket. Do not post any negative comments or I will take my thread and go home!” Seriously, grow up. **pkbites** gave you excellent, real-world advice. You just didn’t want to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/30 "2010-08-23T17:08:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@Duggy\_Fizzle](#): > > > > … When I pull someone over for speeding and they admit it and seem genuinely sorry for it, I almost always give them a warning. … > > My retired cop friend told me never to admit to a cop that I was speeding or violating any traffic law, and in particular don’t give them a number if asked, “Do you know how fast you were going?” That is an overt admission of guilt, and the cop can note it down, and then any arguments you may want to make later about the accuracy of the gun, etc., are moot. It is a confession and the cop can use it against you. > > She also said “Don’t lie”, but that’s way different from admitting that you violated the traffic law. Meant to add, how many people do you think are genuinely sorry they sped? My guess – near zero. All of us are genuinely sorry we got caught, and almost all of us would not have sped had we known we would be caught. But I don’t think the two are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/31 "2010-08-23T17:18:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I have to wonder sometimes what exactly some of our antiauthoritarian members are doing that leads to so many encounters with police. The only cops I see with any regularity are the ones I pass on the way to and from work (them running radar, me driving at \<5mph over the speed limit because I know where they’re likely to be) and the one moonlighting at the liquor store. > > Granted, the latter always makes me feel as though I’m vaguely suspicious-looking even when I’m merely buying alcohol like a normal, law-abiding, over-21-years-of-age citizen, but I think that’s mostly my problem. So far there have been no tickets to fight or unprovoked truncheon beatings to convalesce from. I seriously doubt that my neighborhood boasts the most indifferent (or compassionate) law enforcement in the world, so how have I been able to move through life so easily and without a jackboot on my neck? > [@Chimera](#): > > Without a doubt, there are assholes, and power hungry corrupt assholes, in Law Enforcement. There are in any field of endeavor. In other fields, god help you if they become your manager (which they usually and unfortunately do). > > But some of the attitude, over the long run, comes from dealing with the public. People who don’t respect any form of authority, don’t obey rules or laws, and get all hot and bothered because you (as police, security, manager, owner, whoever is being injured by their behavior) dares to question their right to fuck you or someone else over and walk away. Because people are caught red handed driving 67 in a 55 and think YOU are being the asshole for ticketing them and you should go off and arrest someone for a real crime. Because they just feel like being a loudmouthed punk and dare you to do anything about it. Because they spit in your face when you call them on their crimes. > > I spent four years in Security, and I saw all of this, from college kids swearing in my co-workers faces and claiming we had no power over them, to people trying to steal money from an ARMED guard and then acting like we were somehow at fault for having the money, to people starting fights with multiple other people and then claiming that we were racists because we ejected them from the building. People are stupid, cruel and selfish. People are fucking psychos who NEVER believe they are at fault for anything, no matter how poorly they behave. People have incredible hatred of authority and authority figures which excuses their absolute ASSHOLISH behavior and projects it on the people trying to stop them from fucking over other, better people. And of course, Police Officers, being the lowest and most visible level of that public authority, get tremendous amounts of shit from these mentally and emotionally damaged assholes. > > So on the other side, if you personally have to deal with this bullshit for 10, 20, 40 years, it is very easy to see how it would come to dominate and ruin your entire outlook on Humanity. How you would simply come to expect it from everyone, and immediately act with annoyance and disrespect when you hear or see even the slightest whiff of it. I’m not saying that’s right or healthy, I’m just saying that it is entirely Expected Behavior (to use a tech support term) given the circumstances. I agree with both of these. ---
**Author:** ![Duggy\_Fizzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Duggy\_Fizzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duggy_Fizzle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/32 "2010-08-23T17:29:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > My retired cop friend told me never to admit to a cop that I was speeding or violating any traffic law, and in particular don’t give them a number if asked, “Do you know how fast you were going?” That is an overt admission of guilt, and the cop can note it down, and then any arguments you may want to make later about the accuracy of the gun, etc., are moot. It is a confession and the cop can use it against you. > > > > She also said “Don’t lie”, but that’s way different from admitting that you violated the traffic law. > > Meant to add, how many people do you think are genuinely sorry they sped? My guess – near zero. All of us are genuinely sorry we got caught, and almost all of us would not have sped had we known we would be caught. But I don’t think the two are the same. I understand what you mean. I usually tell people, “Sir, I pulled you over for doing 67 in a 50” without asking them anything and then I judge their response. I respect people who understand their right to remain silent and then do so. I never hold it against them. I already have all the evidence I need if I’ve pulled someone over. As far as being genuinely sorry, I guess its all relative. If someone admits to speeding because they’re late for work/school/meeting, it goes over much better than “I wasn’t paying attention” or “I was just keeping up with traffic”. I understand what it means to be late. _Everyone_ speeds at some point, and I’d like to see some sort of reason and personal accountability. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/33 "2010-08-23T18:42:39Z")
[quote=“Duggy\_Fizzle, post:32, topic:551155”] > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > … it goes over much better than “I wasn’t paying attention” or “I was just keeping up with traffic”… Truly, I don’t mean to be snarky about this, but in my mind “keeping up with traffic” (if true) is maybe the BEST reason to speed, and certainly better than “I was running late”. Personally, I almost never speed, and when I do it’s because I feel endangered by the cars zipping by me. If there’s very heavy and very fast moving traffic, I will speed so I’m not an obstacle. OTOH, I’ve never gotten a speeding ticket either, so either most cops understand this and haven’t bothered me, or they went after people who were going even faster (and there are almost always people around me driving faster than me). BTW, the main reason I don’t routinely speed is so I don’t have to concern myself looking around for cops or speed traps. And I most often become aware of cops on the highway when a whole bunch of cars ahead of me hit their brakes for no apparent reason – almost surely there will be a cop sitting by the side of the road around the next bend or over the next hill. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/34 "2010-08-23T18:56:04Z")
I think any area that a person has to rapidly cross 3 lanes of expressway traffic routinely ,would have lots of serious accidents. It would need redesigning to make it safer. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/35 "2010-08-23T18:57:06Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > Attitudes like this are the reason cops (and ex-cops) are disliked. Go ahead and start the flames. 80% of the thugs and bullies in my high school went on to be cops. The profession, by nature attracts people like them. I’ve participated in plenty of threads about the police on these boards, and i’ve often been in the position of being critical of the cops when they overstep their authority or act like assholes and bullies. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=574775) is one example. I also agree that the police force sometimes does attract the type of person who should not have authority over others or carry a gun. There are some thugs and bullies on the force, and i think that it’s in the interests of both society in general and of good, professional cops that these thugs and bullies get weeded out. But writing a ticket for doing 67 in a 50 zone is not being a thug and a bully. It’s the cop doing his job, and you’re being a whiny bitch and disingenuous asshole for suggesting otherwise. You can moan all you like about how you had no choice but to speed in order to make your exit, but the fact is that you were speeding. I’m not judging you for speeding. As i said in a recent [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=575130) on the subject, i spend most of my time on the freeway traveling at 10-15 mph over the posted limit. But, even though i’m generally going with the flow of the traffic while doing this, i know that i’m also officially over the legal speed limit, and if a cop one morning decides that i’m the guy he’s going to bust for speeding, i like to think that i’ll have the integrity to suck it up and pay the ticket. And i’ll also apologize to the officer for speeding, and make sure that i’m as polite and helpful as possible. Given your performance in your two threads on this issue, i envision you as the sort of person who started bitching and moaning to the cop as soon as he got to your window, rattling off a laundry list of excuses about why you couldn’t avoid speeding, rather than simply saying something like “I’m sorry officer; i was concentrating on making the lane change and didn’t realize that i was going so fast.” I’ve been pulled over for speeding exactly once in my life. It was in a sleepy little town on Route 100 in Vermont, and i was on my way to a wedding with my wife and a friend. I was driving through town at what i thought was a nice safe speed when i got the siren and flashing lights. The cop came to the window and asked if i knew what i had been doing wrong. I really wasn’t sure; i thought that maybe i had missed a STOP sign or something. Anyway, i said to him, “I’m really not sure. Was i speeding?” and he told me i was. I apologized for not paying better attention to the limit. He went back to his car, ran my name through his computer (i was driving on an Australian license at the time), then came back and told me that i had not shown up on any terrorist watch list, so he was going to let me off with a warning, and that i should be a bit more careful when driving through towns. I thanked him, and we were on our way. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/36 "2010-08-23T19:09:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > He went back to his car, ran my name through his computer (i was driving on an Australian license at the time), then came back and told me that i had not shown up on any terrorist watch list, so he was going to let me off with a warning, and that i should be a bit more careful when driving through towns. I thanked him, and we were on our way. If all Australians aren’t on some sort of watch list then we need to fundamentally reassess security procedures in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/37 "2010-08-23T20:17:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > i had not shown up on any terrorist watch list Whoopsies! _types, types, types_ There. Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sealemon2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/38 "2010-08-24T02:44:49Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > > [@Sealemon2.0](#): > > > > I’d like to know where this 3 lane highway is that has 15 miles between one exit and the next. > > 'cause ya know – like – that could NEVER possibly exist. I never said that Sparky. I just asked you where it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/39 "2010-08-24T02:55:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, yes, actually, I do. Wholly apart from the other poor leaps of logic in your post, each Sandman’s DS Gun is keyed to his personal signature. They are not, in other words, ordinary guns, but personal to each Sandman. Given that, Logan’s use of the capitalized term when describing his is understandable, and not a fetishism as you imply. My God! **Bricker** made a legal argument that I actually agree with! (I kid, I kid. I have nothing useful to add to this thread). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Presidente](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@El\_Presidente](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Presidente)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155/40 "2010-08-24T03:02:33Z")
Chimera seems to have hit the nail on the head. I think being cocky and arrogant is almost a requirement to be a good cop, especially a state trooper or city cop because of the many reasons listed by Chimera. You have to have a certain demeanor or criminals or conmen will smell a weakness and walk all over you. That said, I’ve had about three encounters with the police (not as a criminal) where in each case the officer was polite, helpful, and professional. Then again, I’m not a serial lawbreaker like **dmatsch** , so I’m sure my experiences with law enforcement are much better than that of a habitual scofflaw. :dubious::dubious::dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attitudes-of-cops/551155.md?page=3)