# Attn: Americans w/ jobs. Tell me about your vacation days. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927 "2005-11-27T16:06:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/21 "2005-11-28T00:50:36Z")
My situation is a little different: I work for a small software company (I’ve been here 4 years), and everyone gets one big pool of leave. It’s not separated into vacation, sick time, and holidays, it’s just “paid time off.” So, for example, I took Thursday and Friday off for Thanksgiving and used 16 hours of leave, and I’ll use some leave to take a day or two off around Christmas, too. The concept took some getting used to, but I really like it: no one has to work on a holiday they don’t want to or be forced to stay home if they’d rather work, we don’t have to lie about being sick when we run out of vacation time, etc. We get paid 24 times a year, and for the first 2 years you earn 8 hours of leave per pay period plus an extra 8 hours on the anniversary of your start date. So that’s 25 days off per year, which is comparable to (if not better than) most companies who have traditional vacation/sick/holiday pools. The max allowed to accrue is 200 hours, and the company will buy back up to 40 hours of leave over that amount. At the 3-year-mark you start earning 9.67 hours per pay period (still with the extra 8 hours on your anniversary), for a total of 30 days per year. The extra 1.67 hours twice a month doesn’t sound like much, but it makes _such_ a difference! It really adds up quickly. The accrual max goes up to 240, and the company will buy back up to 80 hours over that amount. The next bump is the last one, and comes at the 6-year-mark: 11.33 hours per pay period, for a total of 35 days per year. The accrual max doesn’t increase, but the company will now buy back up to 120 hours over the max. In general, approval is not required in advance of using leave. If you have less than 20 hours you’re supposed to run it past your supervisor, but basically you take whatever you want whenever you want. You can even ask for permission to go “in the hole” (it’s usually granted). One of the things I really like about my company is the benefits package, which includes the leave policy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/22 "2005-11-28T00:52:41Z")
Oops, forgot to reply to this: > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I think it would do Americans good to go abroad. I heartily agree, but for this American it would take more than just extra time off: it would take extra _money_, too! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/23 "2005-11-28T01:01:16Z")
I’m a contract worker. Absolutely none. Every minute I’m not working, I’m not paid. No sick days, no paid holidays, no vacation days. Still, I made the decision to work there. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/24 "2005-11-28T01:15:56Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I’m a contract worker. Absolutely none. Every minute I’m not working, I’m not paid. > > No sick days, no paid holidays, no vacation days. > > Still, I made the decision to work there. Same here. I am a consultant/contractor I have no vacation days or anything else. Or you could say that I get as many vacation days as I want with no pay as long as I can talk my client into it and it won’t hurt me in the long-run. I haven’t taken any days except for Thanksgiving since I have been there. I scrambled to make that up in overtime. Pure unbridled capitalism. I really love it. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/25 "2005-11-28T01:40:27Z")
This all sounds incredibly complicated. First, what are “personal days”, and how are they different from regular vacation days? Second, I don’t understand the idea of pre-allocated sick days. How do you know how sick you are going to be? What happens if you are not sick? Third, one reply implies that in some cases vacation has to be taken in weekly blocks. Is this true? In any job I’ve ever had, you just get a number of days to use as you wish, plus all public holidays. If you’re sick, you get sick pay. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/26 "2005-11-28T02:52:00Z")
> [@Usram](#): > > This all sounds incredibly complicated. First, what are “personal days”, and how are they different from regular vacation days? Second, I don’t understand the idea of pre-allocated sick days. How do you know how sick you are going to be? What happens if you are not sick? Third, one reply implies that in some cases vacation has to be taken in weekly blocks. Is this true? > > In any job I’ve ever had, you just get a number of days to use as you wish, plus all public holidays. If you’re sick, you get sick pay. Simple. All this stuff is decided by each company. They can do what they want. Here is how it breaks down: 1. Vacation Days - Most common is 2 weeks but some companies go up to 5 for very long-term employees. Many people get none. Allocated for blocks of more than one day (vacations, work around the house). They just don’t want someone peppering a year with 14 misc. days although that might be OK some places too. 2. Personal Days - Usually 0 - 5 days. These are days that they give for things of a personal nature like doctor’s appointments, school plays, waiting on the cable guy etc. 3. Sick Days - 0 - 10 days is the normal range. This one is all screwy and I don’t really agree with it. It basically acknowledges that most people lie when they say they are sick so it sets an upper limit on those “sick” days that someone should take. Most of the jobs that I have had say that if your really sick, then we don’t care how long you need, just take it. If you are not really sick then don’t screw with us and come to work. That is the way I think it should be. I guess you could have a problem if you hired a bunch of hypochondriacs. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/27 "2005-11-28T03:22:34Z")
I’m a retail part-timer. No paid time off, ever, for any reason. If I could ever break into full-time work (which is remarkably difficult), at my current job I would get: no paid time off the first year. 2 weeks the second year, no sick days. Max 4 weeks total after this. Not to be taken consecutively. At my last big retail job it would’ve been: Two weeks your first year, and 10 sick days or so. ALSO: paid time and a half on holidays (NYD, Easter, July 4th, Thanksgiving, Christmas), regardless of if you work or not. So, if you work on a holiday, you get paid time and half TWICE. That’s just sick. I worked holidays and I only got paid my measly wage (not even time and half). Way to make your employees happy. Also, no time off regardless of the reason between Oct 31st and January 31st. Any no-show is an automatic dismissal. I need a new life path, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/28 "2005-11-28T03:26:26Z")
> [@beckiemoriello](#): > > 1. your job (maybe how long you’ve been there and if the answers to the following questions changed during that time) Engineer type. Been at the current job a bit over 8 years, but I might answer for previous jobs also. > [@](#): > > 1. which days you aren’t expected to work (thanksgiving (friday?) , xmas, jan 1, labor day? july 4? etc.) All jobs I’ve been at have had all these days off. It is pretty standard, unless you are in retail or the restaurant business, or law enforcement, etc. > [@](#): > > 1. if you have any extra vacation days and if so, how many, and do you use them? is it viewed poorly if you use vacation days? How many vacation days people get would be more interesting. We start off with two weeks, but I’m now at three. (I was at five by the time I left my first job after 15 years.) In this job we also get between Xmas and New Years off. At another job you didn’t, but got a 6 or 8 week sabbatical after 7 years (I never got close to 7 years at that company.) For the past few years, we’ve had to take the week of July 4 off. Accrued vacation time is a liability on the books, since they must pay you for it if you leave, so forcing people to take vacation is good for the bottom line. I’ve got about 20 days stored up now, but will use a few for shopping. Many people at my current job are from India or China, and often save vacation around July 4 or Xmas to go back home for a long stretch. No one opposes using vacation, but things pile up. A good thing about the July 4 break is that since everyone is off, you don’t have to check your email as often. I also go to conferences, which is a nice break also. I usually have more vacation than this, but I used a bunch in August to take my kid to college. There are also limits on how much you can accumulate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/29 "2005-11-28T03:33:31Z")
> [@Usram](#): > > This all sounds incredibly complicated. First, what are “personal days”, and how are they different from regular vacation days? I used to work in the research arm of a manufacturing company, and had personal days. For factory people you needed to schedule your vacation well in advance so that managers could be sure there would be coverage for the line and for the engineers who might need to be called in. You can’t shut down because a bunch of people decided to randomly take vacation. Personal days were for emergencies or things like doctors appointments which you can’t schedule months in advance. For us, they were more or less indistinguishable, except that you didn’t get paid for unused personal days. I’ve never worked at a place with a fixed number of sick days either. I understand it in principle, but it seems stupid. Do people really treat sick days as an entitlement, and pretend to be sick in order to use them up? I’d guess that the number of days sick in white collar companies without a policy is much smaller than any set number. I haven’t had a sick day in five years at least. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/30 "2005-11-28T03:45:28Z")
I’m a network administrator, working for a large healthcare organization. I get four weeks of PTO per year. It was two weeks for my first two years with the company, then three weeks for years 3-5, now four weeks. After 10 years, I will get five weeks (I have just over 7 years now). PTO for us is used for any Personal Time Off, whether vacation, sick time, or “mental health days”. We also get 7 paid holidays, and three “floating holidays”. The latter are due to the fact that we are open on several Federal Holidays, so those who need to work those days can take a different day as a vacation day. California has a law against “use it or lose it”, so we don’t have to use up all of our vacation days every year. If you have some left over, they roll over to the next year. However, there is a cap on the maximum amount of PTO you can carry, after which you no longer accrue more hours. I believe the maximum is about six weeks; I’m in no danger of having that much time accrued. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/31 "2005-11-28T04:15:03Z")
I’m a factory grunt with eleven years on the job. We get 16 paid holidays each year, the regular ones plus the week between Christmas and New Years. No vacation, personal or sick time for new hires, you get 40 hours vacation after two years and a second week at four years. Everyone (except maintenence) vacations around July 4th, the plant shuts down for a two-week Vacation Shutdown. Don’t have 80 hours vacation pay yet? File for unemployment. The third week’s vacation is added at ten years seniority, and can be used in a block or by single days. No sick days, ever, but we do get forty hours personal time in lieu of sick time. More than 3 consecutive days off sick and they make us open a FMLA leave, regardless of whether we have personal/vacation time to cover. Any day off without prior authorization is considered an absenteeism occurence, although after ten years seniority they do begin accepting doctors notes for the odd sick day and don’t discipline you for them. More than five in one year, for your or say taking your sick kid/parent in, and you’ll be disciplined. So, at eleven years I now have 120 hours vacation pay, 40 hours personal and 128 hours worth of paid holidays for a total of 288 hours or 7.2 weeks. Kinda makes up for the draconian attendance policies and mandatory overtime. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/32 "2005-11-28T04:47:25Z")
I’m a contract worker. If I don’t work, I don’t get paid. Period. I chose to take the job, however. My other choice was continued unemployment: for some reason, I feel that my choice was not freely made, but that I was under duress. When my current contract runs out eventually, I will have plenty of free time, but no money. I’m looking for full time work, but it’s hard to come by with all us contractors sucking up all the work for no vacation days, etc. Sucks to be me, I know, but know what? Lose your job, and it will suck to be you. So now you have to fear losing your job even more, so it sucks to be you even if you are employed. Sucks to be anybody who has to work in our current economic system. Wonderful capitalism, hooray. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/33 "2005-11-28T05:24:58Z")
I know I’m going way off-topic as to your original question, but here’s a 180-degree spin on being a consultant. Sure, I can take whatever time off I need/want as long as I coordinate it with the client. Of course, I do not get paid for any of this time—as has been mentioned above. Here’s the spin: I am caught between a rock and a hard place in this. My wife says, “You can take an extra week off to \_\_\_\_\_(fill in the blank).” I say, “Baby, each day costs us about $500. You want me to take an extra three days off? There goes the 26-inch LCD TV you wanted for the bedroom!” … etc. The relatives say, “Oh, can’t you go out on Monday instead of Sunday, so you can go to your brother’s birthday party?” Another $500. Why is it not preferable to split the diff and miss the party, go to work and give him $250 for a present instead? Sheesh. People sometimes think that just because you CAN, that means you SHOULD. ---
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/34 "2005-11-28T06:04:33Z")
> [@beckiemoriello](#): > > My parents are 2 principals, a pre-school teacher, and a retired dentist (steps= 4 parents total) so growing up I never saw what sorts of breaks someone in a non-school job had. > > When I was in Europe I was shocked at the number of days the whole city was shut down, and was asked about vacation days in the states. I wasn’t sure. > > I guess it’s different depending on what kind of job you have. Could we just get a list going where you say: > > 1. your job (maybe how long you’ve been there and if the answers to the following questions changed during that time) > > 2. which days you aren’t expected to work (thanksgiving (friday?) , xmas, jan 1, labor day? july 4? etc.) > > 3. if you have any extra vacation days and if so, how many, and do you use them? is it viewed poorly if you use vacation days? > > thanks! 1. Directory Assintance Operator (411). Unionized. Hasn’t changed since I started. 2. Phones have to be manned 24/7 365 so company observed holidays you request to have them off or to work them and it goes by seniority whether you get your preference. 3. Everyone gets 2 weeks (10 days) paid vacation after the first year, another 5 days after the 5th year, then 5 more days after (I think) the 15th year. These have to be scheduled before the year starts. You get more if you are here longer. 25 year people have 5 weeks of vacation. Also, everyone gets 6 float days a year which also have to be scheduled in advance. I think our contract requires we use all vaction every year. When I was driving for a trucking company, we got 1 week after 1 year and 2 weeks after 5 years and forget when it increased after that. ---
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/35 "2005-11-28T06:06:38Z")
Oh and when I was in the Navy, it was 30 paid days a year if circumstances allowed and you could carry unused days over to the next year up to 60 days total. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/36 "2005-11-28T06:35:08Z")
1. Legislative analyst (researcher) for small company 2. I get most major holidays off 3. We get 10 days a year for the first three years, then after the three year mark, we get 15 days a year. (plus we get like 1 sick day a month.) I just passed three years. So I get 15. It’s not frowned upon to use our vacation, although since it’s a small company, inevitably your coworkers have to pick up all your slack, which is a lot of extra work for them. But we are all pretty happy to do it for each other. ---
**Author:** ![Corrvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Corrvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corrvin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/37 "2005-11-28T10:51:43Z")
> [@dbuzman](#): > > 1. Directory Assintance Operator (411). Unionized. Hasn’t changed since I started. > > 2. Phones have to be manned 24/7 365 so company observed holidays you request to have them off or to work them and it goes by seniority whether you get your preference. We’re open 24/7 as well, and busier when doctors’ offices close. I’ve been here a few years, but everyone gets the same vacation: 1 week off, must be taken all at once, holidays not eligible. We get no holidays off. No three-day weekends, no Thanksgivings with the family, no Christmas under the tree. And it’s not just those particular days-- we don’t get days off instead of the holidays (I’d love to have a three-day weekend in early November, for instance!). Sick time means you come to work sick, unless you’re in the hospital. And hope you have insurance elsewhere, cause our job doesn’t have it. Yeah, there are benefits to working here, but when I’m looking at missing another Christmas morning… it doesn’t seem worth it. Corr ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/38 "2005-11-28T11:33:32Z")
I work at a state run university, unionized professional/administrative staff: Vacation time: from the date of hire, I accumulate 1.5 days of vacation/month (totalling 18 days a year). No vacation could be taken during the first 90 days of employment. After that, I can take it when I want, if approved by my boss. I cannot accumulate more than 40 days of vacation - if I hit 40 days, I accumulate no more until I take some time. Coworkers who have gotten continuity of employment (can be applied for after 3 years of employment) accumulate 1.8 days of vacation time a month. Holidays: New Years (next year, because NY is on a Sunday, we get January 2nd off), Martin Luther King Day, President’s Day (observed by the university on December 24th - the 23rd this year - so that the university is closed Christmas Eve), Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Columbus Day (observed the Friday after Thanksgiving), Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. Sick time: I accumulate 1.25 days per month. No limit as to what can be accumulated. We also get 1 discretionary day per year that can be used if the weather is exceptionally bad in the winter - this is the only thing it can be used for. ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/39 "2005-11-28T13:57:58Z")
I’ve had three different jobs with three different policies for days off. My first job was at a hardware store, as the manager. I got no paid time off whatsoever. Unfortunately, it was during that time I had my two kids, which meant the 6 weeks I took off for each kid was 12 weeks without pay. Tough times. Next I worked at a university, and we were rolling in time off there. I started at 15 days/year vacation leave and worked up to 24 days/year. We also go sick leave at x hours/month, but I don’t remember what x was. I had about 1200 hours of sick leave accumulated by the time I left 10 years later. We also had about 15 paid holidays per year. Pay wasn’t great, but I loved the time off policies. Now I work for a private company with about 500 employees. We don’t get any sick leave, just a combined personal time, starting at 3 weeks/year, then going to 4 weeks/year at four years. We can accumulate up to double before we max out, but I don’t think I’m ever going to get there. If I ever actually get sick I’m screwed, since I tend to use up all of my time off hours on actual vacations. We get 9 paid holidays, 2 of them “floating”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927/40 "2005-11-28T14:18:23Z")
After 27+ years as state employee, I get: Holidays: New Years Eve and New Years Day Martin Luther King Day Presidents’ Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Election Day (even years) Veterans’ Day Thanksgiving Day Day After Thanksgiving Christmas Eve and Christmas Day When any of these fall on weekend, the Friday or Monday before or after is given as holiday. Vacation Time: 7.7 hours accumulated per 2 weeks + 16 bonus hours each Oct. 1 Limit of accrual = 356 hours. Sick Time: 4 hours accumulated per 2 weeks, no limit on accrual On retirement, half the sick leave and all the vacation leave are paid at hourly rate at retirement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-americans-w-jobs-tell-me-about-your-vacation-days/332927.md?page=3)