# Attn circumcised: your mother is likely a sex offender **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278 "2012-07-15T04:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/201 "2012-08-01T02:21:45Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I wasn’t raped. All my comments on this point come down to the fact that a rape victim stops being raped, but you can’t stop being amputated. Does everything have to be relative? Does one sucky thing take away from another? I’m sorry I brought it up, in my groping for context I only stumbled into guilt. > > ETA: what percentage of my dick is it ok to chop off? You’re a fucking tool, you know that? I did NOT defend circumcision. I merely said, stop exaggerating, and stop saying you were molested. Because you weren’t, and you fucking know it. If you really, truly feel that way, you need to see a counselor. ---
**Author:** ![Chanteuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de053/32.png) [@Chanteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chanteuse)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/202 "2012-08-01T02:37:55Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > For such an inflammatory OP, this thread has turned out surprisingly dull. \<_snip_\>…it doesn’t have much in the way of a point. Great post/username combo! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/203 "2012-08-01T03:35:27Z")
I think this argument has come to a head. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/204 "2012-08-01T03:50:09Z")
See what happens when you don’t nip things in the bud. ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/205 "2012-08-01T04:30:15Z")
True. I mean, you could head things off at the pass, try to cut all the excess garbage out. But by now, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/206 "2012-08-01T04:48:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > No, it really is a different thing raised in a culture of religious law. The point isn’t how long they’ve done it. See, this I don’t understand. If circumcision is a form of sexual assault, then isn’t it a form of assault every time it happens? Is everything done in a religious context okay, no matter what it is? It’s just a weird double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/207 "2012-08-01T07:01:18Z")
> [@Robb](#): > > What do you think you proposed as a subject for debate? Whether or not circumcision qualifies your mother as a sex offender. Obviously there are exception classes. It’s legal, so at this time nobody is going to become a registered sex offender over it. But why is it legal? It seems that ordinary medical ethics do not apply. Presenting: healthy person showing no signs of disease. Diagnosis: amputate! Because there might be a disease at some point down the line, and any treatment or prevention regime is apparently futile so here at one week of age it is our. only. chance. Sorry I am having trouble seeing why more parents don’t rub two brain cells together over this one. I’m not sure what they were expecting, but I don’t think amputation is really the way to go about meeting expectations. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > You’re a fucking tool, you know that? I did NOT defend circumcision. I merely said, stop exaggerating, and stop saying you were molested. Because you weren’t, and you fucking know it. If you really, truly feel that way, you need to see a counselor. Who’s exaggerating? It amounts to quite a chunk of your junk. If we were talking about Kim Tran (who was charged with 1st degree sexual assault) then yah, she’s chopping off half or more. But if the answer is _no_ percentage is ok, then the comparison does kind of carry some force, no? Who is to say the motives are not similar either? Tran wanted to curtail her husband’s ability to function sexually. Compare to this from wiki: > [@](#): > > Immerman _et al._ suggest that circumcision causes lowered sexual arousal of pubescent males, and hypothesize that this was a competitive advantage to tribes practising circumcision, leading to its spread. Is that why it is popular in secular America? Social engineering? I’m not sure I should be subject to such efforts. Why aren’t medical ethics consistent when the question turns to circumcision? Why aren’t there analogous examples of pre-emptive amputation? Anyway, you can see how someone might conflate a circumcising parent for a sex offender, “Whoops, excuse me, I assumed the ethics were consistent. My bad! Chop away. Please, may I have another?” And this with the therapy again, why can’t people be unhappy about anything anymore without having to go to therapy? It seems like a thought terminating cliche when you do it like that, rather than edifying like when I make a psychological observation. Say I think people who claim there is no sensational difference between with and _sans_ are in denial. I could compare their position to the people who have their stomachs stapled but report no change in appetite. The people who get an eye gouged out but report no change in vision. And so on. If proposition A=change an organ, then conclusion B=change a function. I write that A-\>B, I say people claiming no difference are in denial that B follows from A. I don’t mean that as a judgement though- it happens for a reason. And that subject isn’t the crux of my complaint here, but it is an honest rebuttal anyway. There are too many points I still have not had time to answer yet and I regret that. But y’all should be more patient than one day for an answer. Heck, I have forever to figure it all out, no? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/208 "2012-08-01T07:04:12Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > See, this I don’t understand. If circumcision is a form of sexual assault, then isn’t it a form of assault every time it happens? I guess it might look that way, but no. > [@](#): > > Is everything done in a religious context okay, no matter what it is? No. > [@](#): > > It’s just a weird double standard. It isn’t really, but I don’t want to go into it in this thread. Later, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/209 "2012-08-01T08:30:58Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > It isn’t really, but I don’t want to go into it in this thread. Later, sorry. Well that’s convenient. I sense you have no justification for this bizzarre exception you have made. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > If we were talking about Kim Tran (who was charged with 1st degree sexual assault) then yah, she’s chopping off half or more. But if the answer is _no_ percentage is ok, then the comparison does kind of carry some force, no? Who is to say the motives are not similar either? Tran wanted to curtail her husband’s ability to function sexually. Speaking of your friend Kim, you never responded to what I said about that case: > [@Meyer6](#): > > An assault like the Tran case clearly has the intention of punishing the victim for some kind of sexual indiscretion (Lorena Bobbitt cut off her husbands penis because he had tried to rape her earlier that night, IIRC). No matter how strongly you feel about circumcising a baby, I can’t imagine that anyone could argue that the parent was attempting to punish their baby for some kind of transgression the baby had committed. So, what is it? Do you think that the Tran case is a useful comparison because parents are actually having the foreskin cut off in an act of angry retaliation? Or do you believe that intent plays no part in whether or not something is a crime? Or do you just believe that anytime someone touches a weenie, it’s sexual assault charge time? Incidentally, \*lots \*of things parents do to their minor children would be considered assault if you did them to another adult without their consent. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/210 "2012-08-01T19:02:26Z")
Originally Posted by **Try2B Comprehensive** All my comments on this point come down to the fact that a rape victim stops being raped, but you can’t stop being amputated. Huh? Are You saying that the victim should stop whining after the attacker pulls out?!? You are losing this big time and obviously You are desperately throwing in everything that You can get without stopping to think what You actually are saying. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/211 "2012-08-22T11:14:19Z")
Sorry, but I had to bump this thread with some details of a new study that was just published: > [@](#): > > If U.S. circumcision rates drop to those of Europe during the next decade, it could add more than $4.4 billion in avoidable healthcare costs, researchers say. > > Senior study investigator Dr. Aaron Tobian, an assistant professor at The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said the added expense would result from \*\*higher rates of sexually transmitted infections such as HIV/AIDS, herpes and genital warts, as well as cervical and penile cancers \*\*among uncircumcised men and their partners. > **[U.S. circumcision drop to cost U.S. $4.4B - UPI.com](https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2012/08/21/US-circumcision-drop-to-cost-US-44B/UPI-55731345602285/?spt=hs&or=hn)** > > If U.S. circumcision rates drop to those of Europe during the next decade, it could add more than $4.4 billion in avoidable healthcare costs, researchers say. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/212 "2012-08-22T13:59:07Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Mothers that “give in” are accessories to sexual assault, at best. At worst, they are guilty of [incestual](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Incestual) rape. But is it “legitimate” rape ? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/213 "2012-08-22T21:30:22Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I don’t have a choice about how I present myself; they chopped half my dick off. So I guess you ought fuck off until you come around. Wow, your foreskin was HALF your dick? You must have the worlds’ smallest dick. I guess I’d be upset too if I had the worlds’ smallest dick. Also if you come back to continue trolling then you should stop telling people to “fuck off” as it is against the Pits’ rules. I would have reported you but the mods don’t seem to hand out mod notes/warnings for nearly month old infractions. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/214 "2012-08-23T13:46:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > I don’t have a choice about how I present myself; they chopped half my dick off. So I guess you ought fuck off until you come around. > > Wow, your foreskin was HALF your dick? You must have the worlds’ smallest dick. I guess I’d be upset too if I had the worlds’ smallest dick. See, here’s what gets me: every time the subject of circumcision comes up, people invariably start talking about dick size, and I wonder whether any of them have actually _seen_ an uncircumcised penis. In case anyone is somehow unaware, the foreskin is not on the end of the penis, and taking it away doesn’t make the penis shorter. It’s like a turtleneck shirt, more or less. Sure, it might fold completely over the head of the penis - when it’s flaccid - and thus make it look a _little_ longer, but that’s like pulling your turtleneck up over your head and saying you look taller. If anything, taking it off would make the penis _narrower_, not shorter, and only by a fraction of a millimeter. And when the penis is erect (the only time when length matters), there’s no difference in length or width between a circumcised penis and an uncircumcised one. “Half my dick”? You’d have to have the world’s smallest dick, indeed. Not just short, but incredibly skinny, too. Maybe the size of a golf tee. But then, circumcision would be the least of your problems, really. Poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/215 "2012-08-23T13:59:33Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > See, here’s what gets me: every time the subject of circumcision comes up, people invariably start talking about dick size, and I wonder whether any of them have actually _seen_ an uncircumcised penis. In case anyone is somehow unaware, the foreskin is not on the end of the penis, and taking it away doesn’t make the penis shorter. It’s like a turtleneck shirt, more or less. Sure, it might fold completely over the head of the penis - when it’s flaccid - and thus make it look a _little_ longer, but that’s like pulling your turtleneck up over your head and saying you look taller. If anything, taking it off would make the penis _narrower_, not shorter, and only by a fraction of a millimeter. And when the penis is erect (the only time when length matters), there’s no difference in length or width between a circumcised penis and an uncircumcised one. > > “Half my dick”? You’d have to have the world’s smallest dick, indeed. Not just short, but incredibly skinny, too. Maybe the size of a golf tee. But then, circumcision would be the least of your problems, really. Poor guy. I’m trying to find pics I have seen of an infant circumcision and the amount of tissue removed is very shocking, far more than you would expect. > **[Circumcision: Not a "Snip," But 15 Square Inches](http://www.noharmm.org/snip.htm)** > > This page graphicaly illustrates the amount of tissue an adult male has lost after being circumcised in infancy. I can’t vouch for the validity of all the claims on this anti-circ site but it helps illustrate that the foreskin is actually a skin tube that when laid flat is very large. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/216 "2012-08-23T14:08:01Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’m trying to find pics I have seen of an infant circumcision and the amount of tissue removed is very shocking, far more than you would expect. > > [Circumcision: Not a "Snip," But 15 Square Inches](http://www.noharmm.org/snip.htm) > > I can’t vouch for the validity of all the claims on this anti-circ site but it helps illustrate that the foreskin is actually a skin tube that when laid flat is very large. That’s not at all shocking, and exactly what I would expect. And it still has nothing to do with dick size. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/217 "2012-08-24T00:34:10Z")
Yeah, it looks like the amount that would retract when a guy gets an erection. So I don’t know how it’s going to make **Try2B Comprehensive** be “asexual”. Unless his was botched. On the other hand, I suspect his brains may have been in his foreskin. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. (A rape victim “stops being raped” indeed. Like that makes it all hunky-dory) (And once again, I do not agree with routine circumcision – I think it’s stupid and unnecessary. I would not go so far though, to call it mutilation and compare it to rape, FGM, and “having your dick chopped off”) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/218 "2012-08-24T04:49:51Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Sorry, but I had to bump this thread with some details of a new study that was just published: > [U.S. circumcision drop to cost U.S. $4.4B - UPI.com](http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2012/08/21/US-circumcision-drop-to-cost-US-44B/UPI-55731345602285/?spt=hs&or=hn) the actual protection garnered is very low. Penile cancer is extremely rare as well. Further, rates of HIV actually increased in Sub-Saharan Africa as circumcised men ditched protection believing they were naturally protected. Education and basic cleanliness are the way forward. The efforts to justify non-medically necessary circumcision are almost as hysterical as the OP. Also the article no information on their actual study. It strikes me as fear mongering. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/219 "2012-08-24T04:53:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (And once again, I do not agree with routine circumcision – I think it’s stupid and unnecessary. I would not go so far though, to call it mutilation and compare it to rape, FGM, and “having your dick chopped off”) That’s actually a very good summation. Well put. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/220 "2012-08-24T07:49:05Z")
Not half my dick? Yah, that is hyperbole. But the amputated part amounts to 15+ square inches of skin on an adult, which is not insignificant. How would you like it if I amputated 15 square inches of skin off of you for no reason? I’d be the goddamn Merchant of Venice! After all this, no one has answered one of the central questions in all this: in what other cases do we recommend amputation on a healthy patient? And of course it is _comparable_ to FGM, it involves amputating analogous structures. Unless you want to get hysterical about conflating cases that aren’t analogous with those that are. And no, I’m not suggesting that rape victims ought to feel better- I don’t even understand where this line of thinking comes from. My point is that circ is a sexual assault with a permanent anatomical effect. It’s like being turned into some category of eunuch, though on that point I bump back into my categorization struggle… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278.md?page=12)