# Attn circumcised: your mother is likely a sex offender **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278 "2012-07-15T04:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/141 "2012-07-17T23:52:00Z")
Look, I am married to an uncircumcised man and have 3 uncircumcised sons. It was an issue I thought about a lot and made some educated decisions about. But even I think you are WAY over the to on this one. Rape? Child abuse? This is crazy talk. I think circumcision is unnecessary, but parenting is all about making decisions every day Well meaning, good parents make decisions I disagree with all the time, and you know, that’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/142 "2012-07-18T00:10:14Z")
Recently, there was a baby boy born at the local hospital who was healthy but had no eyelids. They conveniently tried to use the circumcision skin to make some eyelids for him. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/143 "2012-07-18T00:15:31Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > Recently, there was a baby boy born at the local hospital who was healthy but had no eyelids. They conveniently tried to use the circumcision skin to make some eyelids for him. But he’ll be cock-eyed! Yes, but think of the foresight he’ll have! That one is so old you should be ashamed for posting it. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/144 "2012-07-18T00:17:30Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Look, I am married to an uncircumcised man and have 3 uncircumcised sons. It was an issue I thought about a lot and made some educated decisions about. > > But even I think you are WAY over the to on this one. Rape? Child abuse? This is crazy talk. I think circumcision is unnecessary, but parenting is all about making decisions every day Well meaning, good parents make decisions I disagree with all the time, and you know, that’s okay. I was born in 1972 and AFAIK circumcising boys was just part of the standard procedure at the time (in Australia anyway), like cutting the cord or making sure the kid is breathing. I have two small boys now who are uncircumcised, no particular reason apart from a dislike of any surgery that isn’t necessary to fix a specific problem - that conversation lasted about 5 seconds when the first kid was on his way: Mrs Pope: “Should be get him circumcised?” Me: “Meh. Do you really care?” Mrs Pope:“Nope.” Me: “Me either.” The procedure wasn’t even mentioned in the lead up to the birth or during my wife’s stay in hospital. Presumably these days you need to make a special request. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/145 "2012-07-18T00:49:17Z")
I am unashamed. It’s an oldie but a goodie. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/146 "2012-07-18T00:52:19Z")
Look at the mother on your left. Now look at the mother on your right. Both of them are sex offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/147 "2012-07-18T02:18:27Z")
Just remember, for every mother out there, there’s a motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/148 "2012-07-18T02:20:08Z")
And according to the OP, every guy who’s circumcised is a son of a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/149 "2012-07-18T13:21:06Z")
When trolls troll trolls, trolls troll forever ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/150 "2012-07-18T13:48:25Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > When trolls troll trolls, trolls troll forever And when mothers circumcise trolls, motherfuckers fuck troll rapists. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/151 "2012-07-18T21:25:42Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > \ 😃 > > In most recent news (last Friday, 13 july 2012), the German Prime Minister, Angela Merkel, has overthrown the judges decision and religious circumcision is still legal. Off topic but for the sake of accuracy Angela Merkel has not overthrown the Cologne judges decision - as the Head of Government of a liberal democracy she can’t overrule judges. [She’s said she is opposed to it](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18833145) but it will need a higher court to overturn the decision. ps She’'s no kids so probably not a rapist! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/152 "2012-07-19T04:50:26Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Look at the mother on your left. Now look at the mother on your right. > > Both of them are sex offenders. _Foreskins to the left of me, rapists to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you_ ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/153 "2012-07-20T19:35:02Z")
If the OP has not tried to prosecute his own mother then he is just a fucking lieing, shit-eating, baby-raping, circumcising troll. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/154 "2012-07-20T21:12:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The OP should move to [Germany](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765589058/Ruling-against-circumcision-a-threat-to-freedom.html). The OP should [date Madonna](http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/8245244/madonna-requested-ex-husband-underwent-circumcision) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/155 "2012-07-21T04:47:23Z")
It’s taking longer than we thought… > [@Meyer6](#): > > a) is there a reason why you keep italicizing pathos? I thought one was supposed to. Incorrect? > [@](#): > > b) assuming for a moment that you have a point, why do you think cicumsicion is a sex crime as opposed to, say, medical malpractice or assault or non-sexual child abuse? Are you of the belief that anything to do with a penis must necessarily have something to do with sex? Compare it to the[Kim Tran](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/sexual_assault/severed_penis/4.html) case. Remember that one? > [@](#): > > While the man was tied up, Tran went to the kitchen, got a knife then went back into the bedroom. In a fit of anger, she used the knife to sever her partner’s penis, which she then flushed down the toilet, the article stated. > [@](#): > > Tran has since been charged with three felony counts including, first-degree sexual assault, domestic violence and tampering with evidence. You would rightly say, “But those aren’t the same thing!” Not exactly, but let’s look at the differences and see if circumcision moves out of its orbit: -The victim in the Tran case had half his penis cut off, way more than is lost in circumcision. Yup. At this point we are getting into more of an analogy with the most lurid cases of FGM. But what if the Tran case had amounted to a circumcision? What if she had the guy tied up, took a kitchen knife and only cut off his foreskin? Clearly she violates rules against trained medical staff performing circumcisions in this case, but still, do you think the police would have ignored it? Do you think the _victim_ would have ignored it? I think if we adjust the Tran case to more closely resemble circumcision, it still winds up 1st degree sexual assault. EDIT: Spontaneous submit. Continued in next post. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/156 "2012-07-21T05:29:51Z")
[quote=“Meyer6, post:124, topic:628278”] -The victim in the Tran case is an adult. Yup. I’m concerned about infant circumcision. But in general, aren’t crimes committed against helpless children considered more severe than those committed against adults? -The victim in the Tran case was handcuffed. Yup. But of course infants are helpless by their nature. This one is a wash, notable because this kind of thing seems to happen alot to helpless people and not much to willing people. -Tampering with evidence? Let’s just ignore that. -The relationship in the Tran case is lovers, not parent-child. Yup. I think this is your only argument, to show that the ‘sexual’ part of the first degree sexual assault charge derives from the relationship and not the nature of the crime. But of course giving birth is about as sexual as it gets, but then again… but someone is just going to make a poop joke in this forum. -In the Tran case, the motive is vengeance or malice, not so in circumcision. Yup. And I’d be willing to concede that a mere barren, featureless vapidity for a motive might mitigate the crime to some degree. But would it absolve one of responsibility? Consider: Officer: Sir, are you aware of how fast you were going back there? Yokel Guy: derp… derp…derp… Officer: OK, forget it. I am issuing you a ticket for speeding. Isn’t that how it works? Unless the vapidity is excessive such that the officer asks the offender to step out of the car… Ultimately I am saying that if we treated a just-born person as a real person with legal and human rights, and someone came along and chopped off some fraction of their penis without consent-or-a-medical rationale (or a religious one), we would rightly regard that as (at least) a case of first degree sexual assault. There are other differences between the cases I’m sure, you are welcome to point them out and argue that circumcision should not share the same first degree sexual assault status as the Kim Tran case. That’d be refreshing, as I’m seeing a lot of denial-driven strawman bullshit being bandied about in this thread. I think you’d lose that argument, but I bet it won’t happen to begin with. And of course as of today circumcision for no reason whatsoever is not on the books as a crime, so of course there can be no prosecution of anybody on my part. Or can there? Legally I’d go after the hospital and merely label your mother a sex offender. But time and money would prohibit, and maybe it could be settled. > [@](#): > > c) have you ever thought that maybe you have too much time on your hands? HA! That’ll be the day! I have been _smothered_ by my schedule lately. I can’t get a freaking minute! I’m so busy I have literally skipped meals. _I wish!!!_ But one thing especially I do not have time for is to deliver the proper reproof to every instance of knavery as required by so many of the responses to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/157 "2012-07-21T05:37:28Z")
You need to put down the paint thinner. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/158 "2012-07-21T05:42:37Z")
> [@Vlad\_Igor](#): > > You know what? I was circumcised as an infant in the early 1960s, a barbarous time indeed for male infants. I have never had a foreskin, and I don’t miss it. I. Don’t. Care. If **Try 2 B Comprehensive** can understand and accept my rejection of victimhood, then we can have a fruitful discussion. Otherwise, I have no patience or any interest whatsoever in manufactured victimhood. Unless you create the feelings of victimhood and mutilation, they don’t automatically appear in circumcised men. > > Let me reiterate: I. Don’t. Care. I am perfectly happy with who I am and how I appear, despite your attempts to make me feel less. I am not engaging in manufactured victimhood and have no motive toward that ‘status’. I don’t seek pity. If you aren’t bothered by this, ultimately that is your business. I do suspect if you viewed it in a certain (and certainly truthful) way you would certainly object to it, but your ‘rejection of victimhood’ could easily be the result of something like letting sleeping dogs lie, as any attempt to change the state of affairs would be futile anyway. I agree, the feelings you describe do not ‘automatically appear in circumcised men’; however, they can certainly arise without the subject ever buying a ticket to any I-need-attention conventions. How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/159 "2012-07-21T05:50:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It _does_ reduce the rate of HIV transmission, so there’s that. Then there’s [AIDS Cure Is Back on Agenda](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444097904577535082169444706.html) > [@](#): > > Long considered out of reach, a cure for AIDS is emerging as a potentially realistic goal among researchers and activist groups who have been battling the 31-year global epidemic. And there is always the circ wiki: > [@](#): > > Over forty observational studies have been conducted to investigate the relationship between circumcision and HIV infection.[82] Reviews of these studies have reached differing conclusions about whether circumcision could be used as a prevention method against HIV.[83][84][85][86] In a word: inconclusive. Why are you in such a rush to perform an amputation on an infant for a disease that very well may be cured by the time the ‘patient’ even reaches puberty, especially considering that said benefit is itself questionable? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278/160 "2012-07-21T06:19:29Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > He’s also willing to at least consider giving a pass to religiously-motivated rape. Long story short, I think Talmudic law and Sharia law deserve more respect than a lot of people display. Long story short, the absence of justice in the world is a classical and perennial problem. People react in all sorts of ways, mostly futile if not foolish. Muslims and Jews however devised systems of laws, truly monumental steps in the history of resistance to injustice IMHO. My position is a little convoluted. Do I approve of theocracy? Not really. Do I agree with all of the conclusions of Talmudic or Sharia laws? Obviously not. But these are ancient traditions and honorable, worthy attempts. It is apparently what is best to them and I am not going to contradict them on the validity of their religions. If sincere religious people submit their kids to circumcision for reasons deriving from religious law, I am not going to stop them. I am not the guy that replaces their rabbi or imam or what-have-you. And compared with these systems, modernity hasn’t been around very long. They have a lot of inertia, and not for no reason. A lot of people criticize how these systems arrive at their conclusions, and I can see why. But it isn’t my place to revise such a thing for their practice. Look, today Muslims do not fight with the weapons they used over a millennium ago- today they use guns, rockets, fighter jets and so on in recognition of the ongoing conversation in that field. Eventually they may change their policy on circumcision on their own. I’m not going to be the one to force the issue for _them_. But circumcision for no good reason? In that case I refer you to the thread title. Circ isn’t rape. It may be _worse_ if it isn’t justified. But that discussion can’t happen here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attn-circumcised-your-mother-is-likely-a-sex-offender/628278.md?page=9)