# Attorney sentenced to jail for aiding terrorists. Enjoy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702 "2006-10-16T23:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/21 "2006-10-17T14:49:40Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > It’s quite likely deporting him to Egypt would have been a death sentence. They probably would have tortured him to death, actually, to get whatever they could out of him. I don’t see how we could have deported him to Egypt in any case, as he was expelled from Egypt after his trial for conspiracy in the Sadat assassination (even though he was acquitted). Since then, he was mostly living in Afghanistan (working with the Islamist mujaheddin, and the CIA btw, in the fight against the Soviet occupation) until he was sent to New York to organize jihadists in the US. Sure, let’s deport Abdel-Rahman back to Afghanistan! There are lots of his followers there who’ll be real happy to see him, too! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/22 "2006-10-17T14:58:13Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I don’t see how we could have deported him to Egypt in any case, as he was expelled from Egypt after his trial for conspiracy in the Sadat assassination (even though he was acquitted). [/QUOTE] Kind of a tangent, but wouldn’t the aquittal make him deportable? I would think that the Egyptians might have been happy to have him in one of their prisons, squeezing whatever they could out of him before he died of it. Surely he knew things about people still in Egypt they would have been eager to learn. Of course, he might have been a bit too hot of a potato if a more anonymous prisoner could provide the same info. under duress. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/23 "2006-10-17T15:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I don’t think there’s any way to view her actions as anything but a severe breach of conduct and the law, and I find her pathetic attempts to express a sense of contrition (I’m just _too compassionate for my own good_! Spare me!) rather nauseating. That said, I just don’t see her as a _bona fide_ “terrorist sympathizer”. I see her as an anti-establishment idiot of the highest order who only focuses on the idea of a nice old blind guy getting hassled by The Man. I think should have gotten a stiffer sentence, and should have had to serve the time of her appeal behind bars, but the full 30 years would have been a misapplication of the full weight of the law, as it was intended. [/QUOTE] I don’t necessarily disagree with this analysis, but I think it is worth considering just how much of a stretch “material support for terrorism” really was in this case. She was convicted under a statute which defines “material support” as “means currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and other physical assets, except medicine or religious materials” (18 U.S.C. Section 2339A). The statute also requires that she intended or knew the act would harm people and that people actually died as a result of her actions. The prosecution argued that the support she provided was personnel (i.e. herself). That’s pretty ridiculous. I also do not see anywhere in the written opinion that outlines how she met the last two elements. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/24 "2006-10-17T15:08:56Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Kind of a tangent, but wouldn’t the aquittal make him deportable? I would think that the Egyptians might have been happy to have him in one of their prisons, squeezing whatever they could out of him before he died of it. Surely he knew things about people still in Egypt they would have been eager to learn. Of course, he might have been a bit too hot of a potato if a more anonymous prisoner could provide the same info. under duress. [/QUOTE] Couldn’t we fit this guy with some kind of radio transponder/homing beacon? that way, we send him packing..to Afghaniostan..where he meets up with all his old buddies. Then BINGO, the device sends out a signal to a helicopter gunship, which launches a HELLFIRE missile! The rest is..history! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/25 "2006-10-17T15:17:31Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Kind of a tangent, but wouldn’t the aquittal make him deportable? I would think that the Egyptians might have been happy to have him in one of their prisons, squeezing whatever they could out of him before he died of it. I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think Egypt will be willing to take him back at present. Things were somewhat different back in the days of the ceasefire between the Egyptian government and the Egyptian Islamic militant organizations back in [1999](http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1999/446/eg7.htm): > [@](#): > > Abdel-Rahman is in poor heath, suffering from diabetes and heart disease. Efforts are being made by his followers and lawyers to secure his release for health reasons and have him deported to Egypt. > > Interior Minister Habib El-Adli, in an interview with the Al-Ahram newspaper last month, said that he did not oppose Abdel-Rahman’s return to Egypt if, and when, he was released from the US prison. > > “This is a very positive initiative because it opens the door for the return of the sheikh – a door that has been closed for several years,” Montasser El-Zayyat, Abdel-Rahman’s Egyptian lawyer, told Al-Ahram Weekly. The former interior minister, Hassan El-Alfi, had strongly opposed the sheikh’s return or even allowing his family to leave the country to visit him. Under El-Alfi, the passports of Abdel-Rahman’s wife and son were withdrawn. > > El-Zayyat said that El-Adli’s position is in tandem with the Al-Gama’a’s commitment to a cease-fire initiative, made in 1997 by leaders incarcerated in Cairo, and supported by the cleric. “In this atmosphere of calm, the sheikh would like to come home as an Egyptian citizen,” El-Zayyat added. But now that Abdel-Rahman has questioned or condemned the ceasefire, it’s not clear to me that Egypt would be willing to take him back even if the US would release him. As you say, he’s a pretty hot potato, and I think it could be a serious threat to Egyptian stability to have him locked up in an Egyptian prison. And if he died under torture in an Egyptian prison…fan, meet shit; shit, fan. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/26 "2006-10-17T15:33:39Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] What she did may have been wrong, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that it stretches the limits of the law to call it “material support of terrorism.” It’s certainly not a stretch to say that she shouldn’t be given 20 years for it. Also, much of the evidence obtained for her conviction was gained by warrantless eavesdropping on attorney-client exchanges that should be confidential. This eavesdropping, part of the Special Administrative Measures passed after 9/11 may violate the 6th Amendment. So there may be grounds for further appeal. [/QUOTE] I agree. I think the"material support of terrorism" charge may not stick on appeal. Also interested to see how the Court will address the “Special Administrative Measures” when considered in light of attorney client privilege, and possibly even under the First Amendment. I’d like to read the briefs on appeal… ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/27 "2006-10-17T15:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] And if he died under torture in an Egyptian prison…fan, meet shit; shit, fan. [/QUOTE] Interesting thoughts, and I tend to agree based on your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/28 "2006-10-17T15:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] The prosecution argued that the support she provided was personnel (i.e. herself). [/QUOTE] I thought she “ordered” the interpreter to hand-deliver the messages. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/29 "2006-10-17T15:59:17Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I thought she “ordered” the interpreter to hand-deliver the messages. [/QUOTE] Even if this were so, how would this make the statute more applicable? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/30 "2006-10-17T16:10:04Z")
Sorry, but could someone explain what it is she did that was aiding a terrorist? From the New York Law Journal > **[New York Law Journal](https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/?slreturn=20231016181626)** > > Breaking news and trends with an emphasis on banking and financial litigation and regulations providing New York attorneys and legal pros the insight to run their firms and practices "Her most “potentially lethal” action, Judge Koeltl said, was in June 2000, when she read a press release to a reporter indicating that the sheik was withdrawing his support for a “cease-fire” or cessation of attacks against the Egyptian government. " I’m not at all sure I follow how a lawyer reading out a press release from their client is aiding a terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/31 "2006-10-17T16:12:58Z")
Well, at least three people (sheik, her, interpreter) is a conspiracy, no? That does look like someone providing “personnel”. And was she not aware of the content of those messages? Did those messges not involve acts of violence? Did she not at least entertain the possibility they could lead to bodily harm? It’s quite clear she knew she was breaking the law (though obviously not the trouble she was getting herself into with this one). Considering her actions in the most generous possible light, it was an act of civil disobedience related to what she felt was a constitutional issue. Those who commit such acts, I rather think by definition, ought to be prepared to do some time. 28 months for her ethical breaches alone seems pretty light, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/32 "2006-10-17T17:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] It’s quite clear she knew she was breaking the law [/QUOTE] Could you expand on this, for somebod who hasn’t followed the case in the news? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/33 "2006-10-17T17:19:59Z")
Also, why does this remind me so strongly of an episode of Law and Order? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/34 "2006-10-17T17:22:03Z")
It was an episode of Law & Order titled “Open Season.” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/35 "2006-10-17T17:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Could you expand on this, for somebod who hasn’t followed the case in the news? [/QUOTE] She signed off on the special administrative measures she violated, did she not? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/36 "2006-10-17T17:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] She signed off on the special administrative measures she violated, did she not? [/QUOTE] What? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/37 "2006-10-17T17:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] It was an episode of Law & Order titled “Open Season.” [/QUOTE] Ah, yes. Except the lawyer there was young and hot. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/38 "2006-10-17T17:36:23Z")
What part of SAM is not understood? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/39 "2006-10-18T01:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] RE:Omar Abdel-Rahman, a blind sheik sentenced to life in prison for plotting to blow up five New York landmarks . I understand this guy is an egyptian national, living (illegally) in the USA-why can’t we DEPORT this SOB? he is currently a guest opf the US taxpayers-why can’t we ship him back to Egypt? The actions of this country never cease to amaze me-we allow this worthless POS to stay here, then we wonder why we get attacked. Now we have to provide lawyers so that he can defend his "right’ to stay here and call for the deaths of Americans. I say, send him to some arabic country, where he can meet with an unfortunate “accident”. 😃 [/QUOTE] ralph, ralph, ralph. You can’t possibly be as stupid as this post makes you seem, can you? I mean, can you? You’re remembering to breathe and everything, right? Eat, shit, drink, masturbate - all of that? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702/40 "2006-10-18T04:59:21Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Ah, yes. Except the lawyer there was young and hot. [/QUOTE] Actually, she was [quite middle-aged.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0271165/) But still hot, depending on your personal standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attorney-sentenced-to-jail-for-aiding-terrorists-enjoy/376702.md?page=3)