# Attractiveness of male confidence in other cultures? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944 "2013-05-10T00:07:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/1 "2013-05-10T00:07:57Z")
Is it a global norm that women are more attracted to confident men? Are there societies where women this isn’t the case, or at least isn’t as significant a factor? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/2 "2013-05-10T00:11:36Z")
I submit that men are also attracted to confident women. Isn’t this pretty much normal? ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/3 "2013-05-10T00:16:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I submit that men are also attracted to confident women. Isn’t this pretty much normal? Maybe. I can certainly believe there are evolutionary bases for this, but I’d like to know how strongly encouraged (or masked) it is by cultural differences. (As a parallel, the attractiveness of breasts and waist sizes in women seems to be at least partially evolutionary, but culture strongly influences both. Does the same apply to confidence? How much is physiological and how much is cultural?) ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/4 "2013-05-10T01:32:30Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Is it a global norm that women are more attracted to confident men? Are there societies where women this isn’t the case, or at least isn’t as significant a factor? To answer your first question, according to a [2009 Journal of Experimental Social Psychology article](http://www.psmag.com/culture-society/aggression-not-as-attractive-as-men-believe-3495/), women don’t find aggression anywhere near as attractive as men think they do. From [the study:](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103109002091) > [@](#): > > The present series of studies sought to extend our initial research in several ways. To compare people’s private beliefs about aggression with their beliefs about social norms regarding aggression, we examined the miscalibrations people might have between their own attitudes and those of their same-sex peers. We also explored cross-sex miscalibrations by comparing women’s actual attitudes about aggression with men’s beliefs about women’s attitudes. We predicted that men would believe that other men are more aggressive, more approving of aggression, and more disapproving of non-aggression, than they themselves are. We also predicted that men would misperceive women’s views on aggression by estimating that women would find aggression more attractive than women actually do. We were also interested in examining the implications of these misperceptions for the self. To the extent that men overestimate descriptive and injunctive norms for aggression, they may see themselves as not measuring up to standards of masculinity. If this is the case, we should expect an association between the degree to which men perceive a discrepancy in their own versus their peers’ endorsement of aggression and measures of self-esteem and masculine identification. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/5 "2013-05-10T01:38:02Z")
> [@colander](#): > > To answer your first question, according to a [2009 Journal of Experimental Social Psychology article](http://www.psmag.com/culture-society/aggression-not-as-attractive-as-men-believe-3495/), women don’t find aggression anywhere near as attractive as men think they do. > > From [the study:](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103109002091) Why are you equating aggression with confidence? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/6 "2013-05-10T01:41:08Z")
I would assume self confidence is a shorthand way of determining if someone has self worth and worth to the social unit they are a part of. So in general that is going to be more attractive. Granted that negates the fact that people are generally terrible judges of how much worth and value they have, but there you go. I wonder what east asian cultures think. Or what about sub-cultures. You’d assume when dealing with young people that an emo or goth would not interpret self confidence the way someone who is more of a jock might. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/7 "2013-05-10T02:01:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Why are you equating aggression with confidence? Seems to me like many people who I would say are displaying aggression would probably characterize their own behavior as indicative of confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/8 "2013-05-10T02:14:19Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Seems to me like many people who I would say are displaying aggression would probably characterize their own behavior as indicative of confidence. Somehow I think the opposite is probably true. People who are aggressive are secretly not confident, and are using aggression to intimidate others. People who are confident can walk into any situation and feel little stress or awkwardness conversing with new people. I’m the least aggressive person you’d ever meet. I meet new people easily. I can, do, and have given presentations in front of CEOs and the like over my career and have felt quite comfortable doing so; that is confidence. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/9 "2013-05-10T02:51:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Somehow I think the opposite is probably true. People who are aggressive are secretly not confident, and are using aggression to intimidate others. That might be your perception of the matter, but _the perpetrators of aggression_ typically don’t tend to see things the same way you and I do. In practice, there are many actions that could be assigned either label depending on the perspective of the one doing the assigning. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/10 "2013-05-10T12:27:23Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Somehow I think the opposite is probably true. People who are aggressive are secretly not confident, and are using aggression to intimidate others. We would think, but I seem to remember a study on bullying that revealed the problem wasn’t low self-esteem it was, as one might perceive, an over-inflated sense of self-esteem. We’d like to believe aggressive people are just insecure, but it appears the opposite is true. [QUOTE=Psychology Today] Research studies have proven that there is no link between kids who behave aggressively toward other kids and low self-esteem. In fact, psychologists have found that kids who behave like bullies have high self-esteem, but that they are very “shame-prone.” That means they are afraid their failures or shortcomings will be exposed. A person can have problems with shame and still have high self-esteem, and this is what makes a person act like a bully. Their mean behavior toward others keeps their self-esteem high because it takes their own and others’ attention away from the parts of themselves about which they are ashamed. [/QUOTE] [Link.](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201010/do-bullies-really-have-low-self-esteem) It should therefore not be much of a surprise that bullying and narcissism are closely related. To answer the OPs question, confidence is valued more in individualistic societies like the US. It’s not really regarded as an admirable trait in cultures that are more interdependent. I’m thinking Japan, for example. In cultures like this, expressing confidence may be perceived as downright rude. It’s not uncommon for people to outright lie about how well they did at something in order to not seem like a braggart. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/11 "2013-05-10T12:42:31Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > [Link.](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201010/do-bullies-really-have-low-self-esteem) > > It should therefore not be much of a surprise that bullying and narcissism are closely related. That seems like a fairly nuanced definition of self-esteem and “shame prone” that I doubt many lay people would bother making. Being “afraid their failures or shortcomings will be exposed” is exactly the kind of low self-confidence I associate with over aggressive bullying. I’m sure psychologists have a decent reason to differentiate it from low self esteem, but I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/12 "2013-05-10T15:46:30Z")
> [@colander](#): > > That might be your perception of the matter, but _the perpetrators of aggression_ typically don’t tend to see things the same way you and I do. In practice, there are many actions that could be assigned either label depending on the perspective of the one doing the assigning. This thread has nothing to do with _the perpetrators of aggression_, you seem to be on a different topic. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/13 "2013-05-10T15:55:38Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > To answer the OPs question, confidence is valued more in individualistic societies like the US. It’s not really regarded as an admirable trait in cultures that are more interdependent. I’m thinking Japan, for example. In cultures like this, expressing confidence may be perceived as downright rude. It’s not uncommon for people to outright lie about how well they did at something in order to not seem like a braggart. With the Japanese example, it seems a person can still exude confidence while falling within the norms of society (e.g. not bragging etc.). It seems to me that confidence is displayed during communications with others even if the message itself is humble. It’s those subtle clues (that I can’t really describe) that the person feels as valuable as everyone around him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attractiveness-of-male-confidence-in-other-cultures/657944/14 "2013-05-10T16:01:52Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > With the Japanese example, it seems a person can still exude confidence while falling within the norms of society (e.g. not bragging etc.). It seems to me that confidence is displayed during communications with others even if the message itself is humble. It’s those subtle clues (that I can’t really describe) that the person feels as valuable as everyone around him/her. Yes, I’m not terribly knowledgable about Japanese culture so I’m glad you spoke up. I had a friend who lived there for years and these were the kinds of things he told me. I would imagine communicating just about anything in that context would require a lot of subtlety. Re: the gender expectations, I am also under the impression that in Japan women usually control the household - managing the money while giving men an ‘‘allowance’’ etc - is this true? If true, it seems those women would then be seeking men who were less assertive or confident, but I could be way off.