According to wikipedia, three of the Aubrey books are strongly based on the real person cited as inspiration for both, and a friend of mine who’s been reading Cochrane’s biography tells me that the Trek-like clever tricks come up repeatedly in that.
Shades of O’Brian’s Stephen Maturin – however many years he spends at sea, the technicalities of ship-handling remain total “black magic”, and bewildering, to him. All Jack’s attempts to explain it to him, do no good – though Jack does not strike me as a very talented teacher.
An odd thing – Stephen being such a highly intelligent guy, with wide-ranging interests and profound knowledge concerning them; but he has this complete blind spot about ships and everything to do with them. Like most of us, I suspect – we tend to focus on stuff that interests us, and “blank” on stuff that very much doesn’t.
We could throw Captain Peter Blood into the mix, as well. Another captain who was always coming up with cunning tricks to confound the enemy (in his case, almost always the Spanish).
Then we could ask: ship to ship, who would win: Rear Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane, Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson, or Admiral Sir Henry Morgan–the inspirations, of course, for Aubrey, Hornblower, and Blood. I would say in ship-to-ship action no-body could touch Nelson, but when the despatches were written Cochrane would have won. In amphibious action, especially with irregular troops, Morgan stands alone.
Have ever had the joy of being on a re-enactment – two or more ships with cannons (firing blanks!) – maneuvering around, jockeying for advantage? Incredible fun! Sometimes, events unfold with tragic inevitability. They’re gonna get us… They’re gonna get us… (BOOOM!) They got us! But once in a while, the pilot will do something clever, and the ship whips around inside its own length, and disaster is turned to triumph. It can come down to a lucky heave of the waves. It’s really weird. Did I mention fun?
Also, there are some pretty good computer simulations. Sid Meiers’ “Pirates” is actually fairly good at giving you the sense of a simple battle. You angle and twist and kink, and all those technical terms I don’t know, until you line up the perfect broadside, and then, joy! (Me 'earties!)
Yes! It should be an actionable breach of the law to publish sea stories without maps and diagrams!
(This is the computer age: how about animated diagrams? Or, again, sims. I’d love a decent naval battles sim. From Constitution v. Guerriere to Trafalgar! I have a couple of old board wargames covering this, and that has been of some educational value.)
CK, I’ve always trusted your judgment, and am pleased to find that we are in agreement here. I too have never been able to get through an Aubrey book!
That said, this:
Yes, Aubrey is portrayed as a more likeable person; but ultimately, Hornblower is the man who can watch his friend and second-in-command have his foot blown off and merely growl “Take him below”; watch a young midshipman smashed to pieces; watch his ship be gradually blown apart with blood, guts, brains and body parts everywhere; condemn most of his crew to death by hanging on; because he knows that ultimately, his ship’s sole value at that point is to be there and fight, for delay; and that his duty is to stand there and let it happen.
I would not want Hornblower coming after me, with that methodical, merciless, emotionless determination.
[QUOTE=Trinopus;16654467
(This is the computer age: how about animated diagrams? [/QUOTE]
That would be most excellent. Not only for novel battles, but for actual battles.
It would be extremely cool to have a bird’s eye view of Trafalgar or Jutland and be able to zoom in and watch particular ships maneuver.
Bonden (did I spell his name correctly?) was blown out of existence in front of Aubrey, and the Midshipman that made Stephen reflect on sodomy died before his eyes.
I am reading Hornblower and the Atropos again, and the man is nuts, but quite successful.
Aubrey would be just as likely as Hornblower to see the oar floating by. “Here, Bonden, fetch that up. It’s the bloody frogs!” 
I disagree completely. For all his dash, bad puns, and horrible money-handling skills, Jack Aubrey was a scientific sailor and took great pains to learn the ins-and-outs of every ship he sailed and he had WAY more sailing experience. No way Hornblower outsails him. He also spent large amounts of his personal fortune insuring that every one of his crews was fast and deadly with the guns. Is this ever mentioned about HH? Or was it just assumed that any crew he took over instantly became proficient?
I would give hand-to-hand combat to Jack Aubrey, as he is frequently described as going into an almost berserker-like frenzy when boarding. Hell, Aubrey could reduce Hornblower to a quivering jelly just by playing his violin for him.
I would say that Hornblower’s tactical sense, as well as his tightly disciplined seamanship, would give him the edge in an evenly matched battle ship to ship. Remember when Hornblower cut all the rigging on his ship in case the boarding went wrong? Remember when Hornblower pounced on the artillery shell and tore the fuse out? Remember how he taunted the Spanish ship into sailing into the line of sight of another ship of the Mediterranean fleet when he was outgunned? I’m not saying Jack Aubrey is an idiot, I’m just saying that Hornblower is just that hair more ruthlessly precise, and always one step further ahead.
In ‘Hornblower and the Atropos’, there are descriptions of him exercising the ship’s crew in basic seamanship. It also features many descriptions of where his thinking is light-years ahead of his first lieutenant, Jones. Not that it matters - he has Jones to the point where he jumps to fulfill his orders, even if he does not have the least comprehension of what those orders imply.
I sense a fan-fic story coming on where they are somehow entirely justified in firing on one another because of a delay in orders and a confusion as to who is or isn’t an ally…
OK, you Aubrey boosters - did Aubrey ever reach the rank of Admiral of the Fleet? Huh! Huh! Did he?
Neener neener neener.
Did Forester ever finish* Hornblower and the Crisis?*
That is not in the list of competition, Sir, and deucedly unfair!
I’ve read and enjoyed both series.
Cricket Bats and underwear at 20 paces is a total lay down misere for Aubrey.
Ship to ship is a bit more of poser, as presented in the OP, if it’s Lydia V Surprise, I might have to give it to Hornblower, just based on the superiority of the ship. If however, we were talking even vaguely equal ships I’ll give it to Aubrey every time. It’s easy to write Aubrey off as some gung-ho “always go straight at them type”, but he is actually a very astute and accomplished tactician and always trains his crews to a very high standard.
As to being merciless, when it comes to the high seas and attacking the enemy Aubrey is every bit as hard as Hornblower. He’s a got a soft heart after the fact, but in the thick of it, no quarter.
…but I pray you, sir, that note is not ‘A’…
If you must keep time, Sir, pray do it not a half measure too soon!
Hornblower considers sulking in his cabin, in Hornblower and the Atropos.
If Hornblower is Achilles sulking in his tent, Jack is Hector, victorious in battle.
If we follow this classical allusion, we must give the victory to Horatio.
On the larboard hand, if Jack can incapacitate Hornblower with the violin, H can offer to sell Jack a silver mine.
Neither Aubrey nor Hornblower is a bad sailor; far from it. They’re both excellent. They’re both also excellent tacticians and naval officers, but the telling thing for me, is that Hornblower’s victories were almost always due to a combination of extraordinary intellectual effort, intelligence and in particular a certain hard edged-ness that Aubrey lacks.
Part of it is that O’Brien describes Aubrey in the 3rd person for the most part, or often through Stephen’s eyes, but a great deal of what we know about Hornblower is through Forester’s technique of describing Hornblower’s internal thoughts and fears.
He’s an unreliable narrator of sorts- part of reading the books is reading between the lines and realizing how brilliant Hornblower actually is, despite his lack of self-esteem and constant downplaying of his situation.
Ooh! Ooh! I just Googled, and someone has done it! Here is a REALLY NIFTY animated Battle of Trafalgar, with nice annotations and explanations!
(I don’t know which animation package it uses, so not everyone may be able to see it. If you can…it’s right nice!)
(God, I love the information age!)
Follow-up: I found two treatments (part I and part II) of Jutland.
However: the animation is not as good, and not as comprehensive. Plus, you have to sit through a 30 second commercial. It’s video-animation style (e.g. YouTube.) Still, it’s not too shabby!
Jutland: the Battlecruiser Action
and
Well, I don’t think the ships and ship actions from the Napoleonic (and earlier) wars were plotted on a navigation chart, like you might find from the Battle of Jutland.
At this point, we can only speculate exactly how “Captain Empire” got that raking shot that finally seals the deal and wins the day.
Making an animated diagram is going to be based on best guesses.
In the age of steam, and with the distorted US Civil War ship to ship combat experience to draw on, folks assumed that ramming was going to be the battlewinning tactic that decides the fate of careers. But in reality, a ship with motive power and an attentive helmsman is actually a pretty slippery target.
I would assume that two equally skilled ship handlers in the age of sail will find it difficult to get a decisive edge on an opponent who’s paying attention. Since these ships may be moving fairly slow (like 3 to 5 knts?), the action unfolds fairly slowly by our standards. (Granted, responding to a perceived threat also unfolds slowly, too. )
Thanks for the links, Trinopus!