# Audiophiles: Are aftermarket DACs of any use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627 "2020-02-27T22:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/1 "2020-02-27T22:40:02Z")
I recently moved and I am trying to setup my new place the way I always wanted (within reason) with good audio and video and whatnot. I keep running across many places selling aftermarket DACs (digital audio converter). Often they are not cheap. But for the life of me I cannot imagine one really being better than another unless you have some really low horsepower chip trying to convert the audio. But in the end the data is the data and it gets converted into an analog stream. Does a better DAC actually do anything better than what you have in your PC or iPod? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/2 "2020-02-27T22:44:51Z")
probably a good idea if you are a snob about audio equipment ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/3 "2020-02-27T22:59:29Z")
A few years ago I helped a client get his expensive external DAC working with iTunes. I can’t remember the brand, but it was expensive - well over $1K. I thought it sounded very nice, better than the built-in audio of the Mac, but not nice enough to be worth that amount of money. Maybe 30 years ago, when I had more disposable income and better hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/4 "2020-02-27T23:12:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > probably a good idea if you are a snob about audio equipment I am not. Far from it. I just want a good setup and I know there is a steep diminishing return curve when it comes to audio gear. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/5 "2020-02-27T23:19:20Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/6 "2020-02-27T23:40:07Z")
Are you considering this for headphone use or whole room audio? Money is probably better spent elsewhere, but it would depend on your set up. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/7 "2020-02-27T23:49:21Z")
Most receivers these days have digital inputs and thus their own DACs. Me, I wouldn’t pay more for another DAC. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/8 "2020-02-28T00:02:44Z")
Some DACs that are integrated into receivers, DVD players, etc., are not that great. The type of electronic components used and the circuit design can make a noticeable difference. Where this shows up most is when you use the analog audio output from a DVD player, cable box, or similar device to supply audio to your receiver or amplifier. It’s possible to have four or five sources on your system that all use completely different DAC circuits/components. Would everybody notice the difference? I don’t think so. Most people end up using digital interconnections between components and the result is that a single DAC circuit (in the receiver or amplifier) is used for all audio sources. Please don’t ask me about $500 power cords that will greatly improve your listening experience. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/9 "2020-02-28T00:03:57Z")
(duplicate) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/10 "2020-02-28T00:09:31Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Are you considering this for headphone use or whole room audio? Money is probably better spent elsewhere, but it would depend on your set up. Headphones mainly. Most of my music is played through my PC. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/11 "2020-02-28T00:15:35Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Please don’t ask me about $500 power cords that will greatly improve your listening experience. I got into an argument with a salesman at Best Buy about the $100+ HDMI cable he was trying to sell me. I work in IT, I know how digital stuff works and I know full well that an expensive cable passing a digital signal does no better than a cheap one (maybe…maybe you could get a signal to travel further on a really long cable run but that is about it). He would not relent on how much “better” it was. I gave up and walked away. I did have someone tell me that I could solder a cable and jacks together with a spool of wire and it would work as well as an expensive cable. What I _might_ be paying for is better feel/aesthetics for the cable. I suppose that may be worth something in a few instances but it has zero to do with the sound. I got some new headphones and I love them but hate the cable so I was asking around about that. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/12 "2020-02-28T00:16:05Z")
Headphones? If they are good quality headphones, an external DAC will make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/13 "2020-02-28T00:25:33Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Headphones? If they are good quality headphones, an external DAC will make a difference. They are very good headphones. Really enjoying them. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/14 "2020-02-28T00:28:59Z")
About 30 years ago a magazine , I think it was Stereo Review, did blind listening tests. It was very funny when people could not tell the difference between $300 amp and $3000 amp. They had similar results when comparing cheap vs. high end speakers. I once listened to $3000 speakers and they were OK unless I stood up and then the sound was way worse. Salesman even admitted to me they only sounded good in certain areas of the room. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/15 "2020-02-28T01:00:49Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > About 30 years ago a magazine , I think it was Stereo Review, did blind listening tests. It was very funny when people could not tell the difference between $300 amp and $3000 amp. They had similar results when comparing cheap vs. high end speakers. I once listened to $3000 speakers and they were OK unless I stood up and then the sound was way worse. Salesman even admitted to me they only sounded good in certain areas of the room. Yeah, I have a friend who swears on high-bitrate recordings. FLAC files have something like 7x the bitrate of a CD. I saw a test that showed pretty much no one could actually tell the difference. In theory FLAC is better but our ears are just not good enough to discern that difference. (And, often, a FLAC file is made from a CD recording so literally no benefit) ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/16 "2020-02-28T01:08:06Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > About 30 years ago a magazine , I think it was Stereo Review, did blind listening tests. It was very funny when people could not tell the difference between $300 amp and $3000 amp. They had similar results when comparing cheap vs. high end speakers. I once listened to $3000 speakers and they were OK unless I stood up and then the sound was way worse. Salesman even admitted to me they only sounded good in certain areas of the room. These tests are usually ABX tests, where systems/components A and B are compared to each other and then a blind test is done where one or the other is selected at random. There are many components that are fairly easily distinguishable in blind tests and I would agree that this is the case. There are a few that make up the “audiophile snake oil” end of the business and make no difference. This category includes (literally) $500+ power cords for amps and other system components. IMHO, it’s impossible to distinguish most very high-end components simply because there’s no agreement on what they SHOULD sound like. This is very true of speakers and headphones. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/17 "2020-02-28T01:13:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They are very good headphones. Really enjoying them. Excellent! I own a half-dozen or so external DACs and dedicated headphone amps. Frankly, you may find it helpful to use a reasonably priced external DAC/headphone amp, as you’ll probably get a bit less noise, better dynamic range, more power, and better impedance matching. But I wouldn’t recommend dropping a lot of bills on a special tube headphone amp or one of the higher-end units. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/18 "2020-02-28T01:28:45Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Excellent! > > I own a half-dozen or so external DACs and dedicated headphone amps. Frankly, you may find it helpful to use a reasonably priced external DAC/headphone amp, as you’ll probably get a bit less noise, better dynamic range, more power, and better impedance matching. But I wouldn’t recommend dropping a lot of bills on a special tube headphone amp or one of the higher-end units. I have been looking seriously at the [Schiit Hel DAC/Amp](https://www.schiit.com/products/hel). Any opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/19 "2020-02-28T01:52:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have been looking seriously at the [Schiit Hel DAC/Amp](https://www.schiit.com/products/hel). Any opinions? I had a hell of a time with a modi/magni setup trying to get them to work consistently with Windows( 7 AND 10 ). Not just one set, either. My father had a pair and I tried swapping them around to temporary but no lasting effect. I am not the only one that has had that issue and believe me I tried a lot of solutions before finally just shrugging and writing them off for that usage( desktop PC using a pair of Sennheiser HD 600’s ). In fairness they worked just fine with my father’s Linux-based machine. But I am wary of Schiit after that experience. I’ve seen negative chatter that they’re better at product promotion than quality control, but you have to be wary about audiophile chatter generally. Good or bad. Particularly on the internet - hobbyists can be very particular in their petty hatreds and enthusiasms for different brands. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627/20 "2020-02-28T02:41:32Z")
There still may be the matter of setting up your PC to work with an external device that has nothing to do with the DAC itself. For example, I wanted to listen to music coming from an old laptop through USB to a DAC/preamp to an amplifier to speakers. I was only finally able to get it to work consistently after installing a real-time Linux kernel and JACK on the laptop; then it would play stuff like 24-bit 96 kHz files without skipping. This may be a non-issue today if you simply use a new computer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-are-aftermarket-dacs-of-any-use/848627.md?page=2)