# audiophiles, is an amp/dac a good investment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489 "2015-09-10T02:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/1 "2015-09-10T02:15:35Z")
If you have headphones with medium-low impedance like 50 ohms and you are using a laptop with audio integrated into the motherboard, is an amp/dac a good investment? What brands are decent for $150 or less (preferably less) if it is worth it? Also can you really tell the difference between a 4MB 128kbps mp3 file and a FLAC file? ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/2 "2015-09-10T02:39:43Z")
I don’t know if a good DAC/amp combo makes a difference. Objective evidence on the matter is lacking. If it does make a difference, you probably want a Fiio E10K in your situation. mp3 vs FLAC definitely makes a difference, assuming a good source for the FLAC. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/3 "2015-09-10T04:14:24Z")
Most laptops have a lot of electrical noise in their headphone jack, which you can hear in good headphones (often even in bad headphones). My current laptop has a pronounced whine which changes under load, WiFi usage, touchpad usage, etc. A standalone DAC connected over USB is better isolated electrically, as well as physically separated and will often result in better audio quality for that reason alone. I have one of these, which I like very much and use to drive a pair of Sennheiser HD650s: > **[D1 24-bit DAC/Headphone Amp (Refurbished) — Audioengine](https://audioengine.com/shop/factory-refurbished/d1-24-bit-dacheadphone-amp-2/)** > > Perfect for providing high quality audio to speakers or headphones, the D1 is a premium 24-bit DAC and headphone amplifier for your computer, TV, and more. The D1 connects to your computer’s USB port or optical output without any software to... They also make the D3, which I have not tried, but is slightly cheaper and more compact: > **[D3 24-bit DAC/Headphone Amp — Audioengine](https://audioengine.com/product_tech_specs/d3-24-bit-dac-headphone-amp/)** If you do not notice any obvious artifacts (noise, hiss, whine, etc.) in your headphone jack already, then any improvement the DAC produces will likely be minimal unless you have really good headphones and really good ears. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/4 "2015-09-10T04:42:42Z")
I have a couple things. One is the [Behringer UCA202](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J0IIEQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00) which works okay for a lot of things, but may not be quite what you’re looking for. The other is an older version of the [Astro MixAmp Pro](http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp%E2%84%A2-pro/3AM99-AGU9X-975.html). It’s gotten a lot of use over the years using the optical in from my TV for using my PS3/PS4 and TV, as it gives 5.1 (the new one does 7.1) through headphones and it’s pretty dang immersive. You can turn off the simulated surround if your source is stereo only, which is nice. I also bought a pair of [these](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CMS0XU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00), which are no longer available. But you definitely need a good pair of headphones, and this is a good pair. I thought the page might be a good starting point. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/5 "2015-09-10T11:46:38Z")
the headphone output of the UCA202 has stupidly high output impedance (like 50 ohms or so) and you wouldn’t want to use it with low impedance 'phones. you want the load impedance to be _at least_ an order of magnitude higher than the source impedance. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/6 "2015-09-10T12:54:22Z")
I had the same problem but ever since I started using Bluetooth and wireless Bluetooth headphones, the sound is fantastic. No more noise. No more distortion. The price is surprisingly low. Sony makes a pair for $120 that comes with awesome noise suppression. You can get a very inexpensive adaptor for you laptop that enables it to connect with Bluetooth devices. Why spend that money on a Headphone amp when you can buy a pair of BT headphones with the same money and use them from your smart phone, laptop, notebook, tablet or desktop? I love my Sony Bluetooth headphones. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/7 "2015-09-10T12:59:43Z")
Here is a link to those headphones: [http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/sony-nfc-bt-on-ear-style-headphones-mdrzx330bt/6000192663873](http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/sony-nfc-bt-on-ear-style-headphones-mdrzx330bt/6000192663873) Here is the one with all the noise suppression features: [http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/sony-bluetooth-and-noise-cancelling-headset-mdr-zx550bn/6000190281508?cmpid=PPC\_Google\_Google-Shopping\_PLA\_EN\_6000190281508\_1000320034305096000188524356\_509&kpid=6000190281509&gclid=CjwKEAjw1MSvBRDj2IyP-o7PygsSJAC\_6zodPzWJRPxYka3wXp95SwkuFbgmevNiQm149Lv3qxJffxoCk23w\_wcB](http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/sony-bluetooth-and-noise-cancelling-headset-mdr-zx550bn/6000190281508?cmpid=PPC_Google_Google-Shopping_PLA_EN_6000190281508_1000320034305096000188524356_509&kpid=6000190281509&gclid=CjwKEAjw1MSvBRDj2IyP-o7PygsSJAC_6zodPzWJRPxYka3wXp95SwkuFbgmevNiQm149Lv3qxJffxoCk23w_wcB) Can anyone answer a question for me? In the above link, it says something about charging the battery and “max battery life with NC off”. What is NC? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/8 "2015-09-10T16:20:53Z")
NC is most likely noise cancellation. That’s an active battery drainer, so you’d expect longer useable time with the noise cancellation off. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/9 "2015-09-10T23:31:30Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > NC is most likely noise cancellation. That’s an active battery drainer, so you’d expect longer useable time with the noise cancellation off. O. I C. Tank you. Much apreciated. Would you have any opinion as to the relative merits of using BT “over the ear” headphones" vs a separate headphones amplifier? Establishing a separate way to link headphones to a DT PC or LT or NB PC certainly is not easy. It requires quite a lot of time and work investment. But they are just so much more convenient to deal with. My guess is that a few years from now, most devices will simply no longer require “wired” connections any longer. But I just don’t know. May I ask what your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/10 "2015-09-11T01:21:45Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > I don’t know if a good DAC/amp combo makes a difference. Objective evidence on the matter is lacking. If it does make a difference, you probably want a Fiio E10K in your situation. > > mp3 vs FLAC definitely makes a difference, assuming a good source for the FLAC. The E10K was the model I was looking at. Is it better than the E17k or is it pretty much the same? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/11 "2015-09-11T01:43:44Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the headphone output of the UCA202 has stupidly high output impedance (like 50 ohms or so) and you wouldn’t want to use it with low impedance 'phones. you want the load impedance to be _at least_ an order of magnitude higher than the source impedance. I’ve actually barely used it since I bought it several years ago. The MixAmp I use all the time and I bought the headphones specifically for the MixAmp. I’m not a huge fan of Bluetooth. When it works, it’s great. In my experience, I spend a lot of time dealing with connection failures. It’s especially bad with my SiriusXM Lynx, but in any case when I’m at home I don’t see the need for the wireless connection for things like headphones. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/audiophiles-is-an-amp-dac-a-good-investment/730489/12 "2015-09-11T01:53:49Z")
I built the Objective 2 amp for \<$100, and there is a DAC you can build for/with it. Our you can buy them [assembled](https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/products/35/objective2-headphone-amplifier/). The amp has been great for my Sennheiser HD595 connected to my laptop or my phone.