# August 2018 White Civil Rights Rally in Washington, DC. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575 "2018-06-22T15:54:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/41 "2018-06-25T17:15:52Z")
A Twitter friend of mine in the C’ville area reports that these assholes intend to go to C’ville before going on to Washington, DC. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/42 "2018-06-25T17:40:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > A Twitter friend of mine in the C’ville area reports that these assholes intend to go to C’ville before going on to Washington, DC. If anyone is attacked, injured or killed (like the last big disaster) the leaders and organizers and “speechifiers” should be formally charged with incitement to violence. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/43 "2018-06-25T18:12:46Z")
How about instead of silly music, play “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and see if they get _that_ message. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/44 "2018-06-25T18:40:05Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I’m not. > > Factually incorrect. > > Also incorrect. > > Yes, because censors only censor those who are on the wrong side of history. > > I gave **wolfpup** every opportunity to make this case, and they refused. They were utterly unable to do so, and they knew it, so they declined to even make the effort. > > No, not in the context we mean here. > > Not that simple. Learn some law before you further make a fool of yourself. Look at what’s left of your post when I quote it. It boils down to saying “nuh-uh!” and blaming someone else ( **wolfpup** ) for your own lack of knowledge or research on a term you used (hate speech). You still pretend that “hate speech” means “censor anything I don’t like.” That’s as stupid as thinking that about defamation (e.g. libel, slander) means "censor anything I don’t like.) All you did was tell me that you can’t form a counterargument to anything I said. If I were you, I’d reassess who looks like what. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/45 "2018-06-26T12:10:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They never intended to go through with it, they are only angling to be brutally oppressed. They got their permit, now what? How many are they claiming to expect? Prepare for that, fund that, if needed for porta-potties, emergency medical, brown acid…wait, scratch that, these people can’t handle facts, much less drugs. > > Start doing that, and they will panic, they will find some reason to cancel and claim they were forced to. Those that are remotely sane don’t want us to see how pitifully few people would show up. Nothing says stupid and empty like “expecting” ten thousand and getting fifty. Give them their moment in the sun, for sunlight is wonderful stuff. > Protest the “Occupy” way, with mockery, silliness, and fun. These jerks are desperate to be taken seriously. Don’t. Taco trucks, vegan bratwurst. And, of course, sauerkraut. Oh, yes,\* sauerkraut\*! Get the raging queen commandos out with cross-dressing Hitler cosplay. > > No worries, won’t happen. Violence by antifas wouldn’t scare them, mockery by Ru Paul wannabes in SS drag? They will bail. Brilliant. Antifa is what they WANT. They would like nothing better than masked people attacking them. However, mockery is what the deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/46 "2018-06-26T12:23:25Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Brilliant. Antifa is what they WANT. They would like nothing better than masked people attacking them. However, mockery is what the deserve. Right, but it only takes a few Antifas to allow the alt-reich’s narrative of oppression to continue. And all of them will never agree to stay away. Then the people who advocate ignoring them will tut-tut the rest of America and say “why didn’t we just ignore them? Maybe that will work.” even though it had already been tried. It’s like the theory of ignoring trolls that never works - just a few feeders will allow anti-troll zealots to say “why does EVERYONE here keep feeding the trolls” when it is actually only a few. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/47 "2018-06-26T12:28:51Z")
I thought these guys were too busy screwing each other’s wives and mothers to organize another march. Oh well… ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/48 "2018-06-26T14:03:59Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Speech _ **is** _ action. Speech has consequences. Sometimes those consequences are heinous enough that that the speech doesn’t deserve any protection. Inciting violence - and keep in mind that violence and murder was successfully incited the very last time these guys demonstrated - is not free speech. It is criminal. None of the concepts under discussion define themselves exactly. However rejection of the concept of prohibited ‘hate speech’, as US courts have under the first amendment, doesn’t mean people can say anything in any context. Inciting violence _is_ illegal in the US, but has been interpreted to require a direct call for violence against particular people in a context where the result will be immediate and there’s no room or time for competing ideas to be expressed and considered. The concept can’t just be that violence tends to result when Group X demonstrates publicly. That would mean anti-Group X activists could just show up at Group X rallies, make sure there’s violence, and thus shut Group X up. That’s not workable and not the system anywhere. I think Canada’s system is misguided, should never be adopted in the US, but in fairness that’s not what it is. A ‘hate speech’ system is not about preventing incitement to violence which is already prohibited in the US. It’s about banning speech that’s democratically (in the context of democracies) decided to have no redeeming value. People in favor of that concept should not obfuscate it by claiming it’s all about incitement to violence, then twisting and stretching the definition of ‘incitement’. They should just admit it’s about banning nearly universally disagreed with opinions on sensitive topics for the good of society as a whole as they see it. That’s what it is. I disagree with that concept, I think the slippery slope problem is just too big. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/49 "2018-06-27T02:00:29Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I thought these guys were too busy screwing each other’s wives and mothers to organize another march. Oh well… Each other’s wives and _their own_ mothers. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/50 "2018-06-27T03:05:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > \ hate Nazis (particularly Illinois Nazis, I should point out)… ISWYDT. Oh, and fuck a bunch of nazis. ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/51 "2018-06-27T11:20:50Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Are we still fighting ignorance? > > The EU countries have mostly pretty good track records when it comes to civil rights (though Hungary has fallen off the wagon recently), and yet we have a serious problem with human trafficking from Eastern Europe - “white” girls sold into prostitution and labour “agreements” that are difficult to distinguish from slavery in practice (no matter that it doesn’t exist legally). > > Latvia discriminates its Russian minority also in law. Russia discriminates non-Russians in, well, far too many ways to address them in a single post. > > Bosnia and Serbia are no innocents either. > > “White” people face civil rights abuses whereever those are common; and, of course, lets not forget that more than half of all white people are women – and they have plenty to say about their struggle for equal rights. This is a whole lot of words in no way rebutting what was said. Human trafficking is immensely more an issue for people of color than white people, although not exclusively. To take a pitting against white supremacists and make it all BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE WOMENS is offensive and I say that as a white woman. Here, in this country which is the one we’re currently discussing, white women continue to benefit from privilege and speaking loudly to quiet minority voices instead of amplifying them. Whataboutism is a political cancer that is giving me a twitchy eye. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/52 "2018-06-27T14:39:22Z")
Operation American Spring 2.0, Maybe Well get three digit numbers this time! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/53 "2018-06-27T16:27:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Some facts you should consider. > > Canada has hate speech laws. They are carefully crafted as a balance between the best interests of a peaceful society and the constitutionally enshrined right of free speech. Martin Luther King wasn’t banned in Canada. He was in Toronto in 1967 without a problem, giving one of the famous Massey Lectures to great acclaim. Dangerous neo-Nazis have, however, been banned from Canada, or subsequently deported. Canada didn’t have hate speech laws in the 60’s afaik. They were introduced in the 80’s. Not that MLK would have run afoul of them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/54 "2018-06-27T21:00:28Z")
> [@HelenTroy](#): > > This is a whole lot of words in no way rebutting what was said. This was said by Jasmine: > [@](#): > > White people whining about Civil Rights is like Super Models whining about being body shamed, isn’t it? In case you still need to hear this reiterated, the part of my reply you quoted was not addressing the thread opening post but Jasmine’s broad-brushed statement, which wasn’t discussing white supremacists at all - unless you want to argue that “white people” equals “white supremacists”. Do you? The one part of my post that was actually addressing the thread opener and the group that incited this pitting, you chose to leave out when you quoted me. > [@HelenTroy](#): > > (…) To take a pitting against white supremacists and make it all BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE WOMENS is offensive and I say that as a white woman. Here, in this country which is the one we’re currently discussing, white women continue to benefit from privilege and speaking loudly to quiet minority voices instead of amplifying them. All about it? The discrimination against Russsians in Latvia, a multitude of minorities in Russia, Bosnia and Serbia are all examples about “white women”? You complained about “a whole lot of words” and all you saw being mentioned were white women? Then I haven’t used enough words. You want to read more examples of Civil Rights violations suffered by people regardless of their “race”? Yet, ironically, I will reply specifically to one claim within the quote mentioned above that deals with, oh well, white women (as you describe them): “white women continue to benefit from privilege”. I don’t doubt that many do; but just like Jasmine, you’re generalizing in a way that makes your statement untrue, because it would not be hard to point to “white” people who live in deep poverty and/or lack basic education and might have plenty of other reasons to be justified to call their lifes miserable - even in the USA. If someone leads a hard life, is it somehow easier because the average sharing the same racial classification is better off than other people? This is always a problem when you think of people in categories, and not look at them as individuals. You might be well-meaning, but you won’t do people justice - and, sadly, you repeat the mistake made by those you want to distance yourself from. > [@HelenTroy](#): > > Whataboutism is a political cancer that is giving me a twitchy eye. It is. But if you think my reply was a whataboutery, you might want to re-check the definition of a tu-quoque fallacy. No appeal to hypocracy was made, no relativization was expressed. Over-generalizations are neither helpful nor true. They need to be challenged, no matter what political idea pushes them into a debate. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/55 "2018-06-28T00:28:49Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Over-generalizations are neither helpful nor true. They need to be challenged, no matter what political idea pushes them into a debate. Then please go start your own thread, dude; stop shitting all over this one. Yes, you’re shitting in it. You brought up a completely unrelated topic that was only relevant because you ignored all context of the thread. I like you, but you were way off base with your first post in this thread; continuing the run around all the bases isn’t necessary or desired in any way by anyone but you. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/56 "2018-06-28T09:18:38Z")
You’re right, sorry for distracting from your point. If she wishes to continue the discussion, I’m fine with it but we should indeed do so elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/57 "2018-06-30T22:09:56Z")
> [@HelenTroy](#): > > … Whataboutism is a political cancer that is giving me a twitchy eye. True. It is a deliberate trainwreck, designed to bullshit us away from the real question or discussion. And, the supposed “equivalence” is damn near never there anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/58 "2018-07-01T22:00:21Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > In Lafayette Park, you say? I wonder what would happen if 100,000 random citizens of DC decided to have a picnic in Lafayette Park and got there really early? So that there wasn’t room for the Nazis to rally. I think this is a great idea- but not just any picnic. [Make sure it’s a B.B.Q. A really big B.B.Q. !!!](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/22/us/white-woman-black-people-oakland-bbq-trnd/index.html) 😃 ( And we could have themed side-dish competitions, like " Slaw-ter on Tenth Avenue " ) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/59 "2018-07-02T00:10:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Canada didn’t have hate speech laws in the 60’s afaik. They were introduced in the 80’s. Not that MLK would have run afoul of them anyway. You’re both wrong! 😃 The hate speech provisions of the ‘‘Criminal Code’’ were came into force on June 11, 1970: ‘‘An Act to amend the Criminal Code’’, SC 1970, c. 39. (Can’t cite to an on-line version; my source is a pay-service.) Not that it affected Dr King any. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/60 "2018-07-02T00:32:38Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I’ll ignore your _tu quoque_. It’s irrelevant, and only meant to incite an angry response I’d regret. > > I will say that, even limiting our consideration to modern events, [Canada has a long way to go in terms of freedom of expression](https://www.popehat.com/2010/11/22/new-york-times-co-v-sullivan-my-love-letter-to-the-united-states-supreme-court-and-the-first-amendment/): > > [More](https://www.popehat.com/2007/11/27/calling-the-censor-a-censor-gets-you-in-trouble-in-canada/): **Derleth** , I went back and dug out the Vigna case. As **Wolfpup** says, it’s a libel action. I was under the impression that you have libel laws in the US, but if I’m wrong about that, I’m sure you’ll correct me. As well, the judgment makes it clear why the libel action succeeded. Levant was essentially saying that a lawyer, Vigna, made up an excuse for seeking an adjournment from a tribunal he was appearing before, because of a vague statement that there were things going on in his life that affected his mental state. At the libel action, it came out that what was happening was that Vigna had been threatened the previous night and some of Vigna’s colleauges were being followed about, raising issues about their personal security. Levant also said, erroneously, that Vigna never complied with his undertaking to the tribunal that he would provide a doctor’s certificate relating to his health, even a year later, and also that Vigna had lied to the tribunal. In fact, Vigna had provided the medical certificate to the tribunal within three days, and it confirmed his need for an adjournment. I don’t know about libel law in your state, but in Canada, making false statements about the way a professional carries out his/her professional duties is a very serious matter. Alleging that a lawyer has lied to a tribunal or a court, in the course of appearing before that tribunal or court, is very serious and goes to the lawyer’s reputation. So too is an allegation that a lawyer has not complied with an undertaking to the tribunal or court. Lying to a tribunal or court, and breach of an undertaking, are both very serious professional allegations. If true, so be it. But if made falsely, with reckless disregard to the truth, then such statements have always potentially been the basis for a successful libel suit. But that’s not the end of it. The defendant in a libel suit has defences. The Court here went very carefully went through all the normal defences relating to libel: fair comment, matter of public interest, due diligence, timely publication of an apology/retraction, and found that Levant had failed in every one. That’s why Levant was found civilly liable to Vigna for damages to his reputation as a lawyer. Of course, your source article just substitutes mockery for any reasoned legal analysis, because it appears to like Levant’s views on free speech. But at these boards, we should be trying for reasoned debate, not mockery, as the basis to persuade. Here’s a link to the judgment: [_Vigna v Levant_, 2010 ONSC 6308.](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2010/2010onsc6308/2010onsc6308.html?resultIndex=1) So, just out of curiousity: are you saying that in the US, if a person accuses a lawyer of lying to a court or tribunal, and of breaching professional standards, and the court found that as a fact the defendant made false statements, with reckless disregard to the truth, no libel action would lie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575.md?page=4)