# Aung San Suu Kyi is looking like such a disappointment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839 "2017-11-17T03:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/21 "2017-11-18T15:15:54Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Beni adam, beni adam. > > all the expectations built on the people or the person acting like the pieces of the literature or the fantasy theory, not the real human being are doomed to the disappointment. > > It is why the complaints always about politicians are so stupid. All politicians are is a flawed person in the limelight… expecting politicians to act like abstract theory and not actually be human beings, end in the disappointment. QFT. Nice post. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/22 "2017-11-18T15:25:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Plus even noble heroes are flawed. Washington and Mandela were not ascended beings, they were men, with virtues and defects and moral failings. I didn’t say they were ascended beings. I said they were two people who held to their declared ideals even after gaining power. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/23 "2017-11-18T15:42:52Z")
Yes, I don’t think hoping leaders won’t commit a genocide is holding them to an impossible standard. Humans are of course flawed. However millions of people spend their lives a) trying to do a good job and b) trying to avoid hurting anyone. That’s all that’s required here. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/24 "2017-11-18T18:39:01Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > They will eagerly seek to cast whoever’s confronting the Big Bad as being the Noble Hero – overlooking that you don’t need to be noble or heroic to antagonize the Big Bad. Right. Many “freedom fighters” are really just fighting for freedom for their side or ethnic group. They don’t care about noble principles in general. Once they come to power, they are perfectly happy to oppress those opposed to them. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/25 "2017-11-19T02:47:30Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is why the complaints always about politicians are so stupid. All politicians are is a flawed person in the limelight… expecting politicians to act like abstract theory and not actually be human beings, end in the disappointment. I don’t think people criticize politicians for being human. That would be inane. Flawed individuals can still do their best to make rational and humane policy decisions. Politicians seem so often unable to do this, hence the criticism. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/26 "2017-11-19T13:50:30Z")
Oh, but certainly. The leaders who walked the talk once they got into power are admired because they did so even though they would be just as tempted to abuse it as the next guy, but did not. What some of us are pointing out is that this particular leader was among those who were overly exalted mostly on account of merely being the face of resistane. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/27 "2017-11-19T14:15:56Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I don’t think people criticize politicians for being human. That would be inane. No they do not think they are doing so. But by the ricochet in having expectations that are not set against any real human behaviour but idealizations they do. > [@](#): > > Flawed individuals can still do their best to make rational and humane policy decisions. Politicians seem so often unable to do this, hence the criticism. Rather people do not like to recognize how much their ‘preferrences’ contain things of inherent contradictions and expect the magical resolutions. so much of criticisism of “typeical politicians” is really about the non recognition of the general flaws and the strong tendency to idealize - and the lack of the self-awareness of their own demands being contradictory. So the cycle of disappointment with non politicians to politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/28 "2019-12-11T14:07:39Z")
Bumped. ASSK says genocide claims are ‘misleading’: [Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi says genocide claims against Myanmar are 'misleading' | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/asia/aung-san-suu-kyi-genocide-defense-intl-hnk/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/29 "2019-12-11T15:05:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Is this the natural order of things when reformers take over from a dictatorship? They become the new bad guy? I don’t know if they necessarily become the new bad guy, but it seems pretty clear from history that in a lot of cases, rebels/reformers are good at being rebels and reformers, but not good once they’ve won at the mundane business of running an organization from day to day, especially if they weren’t statesmen/politicians to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/30 "2019-12-11T15:07:09Z")
Wow. If your strongest argument against claims of genocide is that they are “incomplete and misleading,” that’s a big red flag right there. I’d like to think, if I ran a country, that I could respond to allegations of genocide with a categorical “We are not killing people.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/31 "2019-12-11T15:21:24Z")
Gaining power is one thing, keeping it is another matter altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/32 "2019-12-11T16:11:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > …I’d like to think, if I ran a country, that I could respond to allegations of genocide with a categorical “We are not killing people.” Better still to be able to do so truthfully. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/33 "2019-12-11T16:32:05Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Beni adam, beni adam. > > all the expectations built on the people or the person acting like the pieces of the literature or the fantasy theory, not the real human being are doomed to the disappointment. > > It is why the complaints always about politicians are so stupid. All politicians are is a flawed person in the limelight… expecting politicians to act like abstract theory and not actually be human beings, end in the disappointment. There’s a huge difference between a flawed politician and a facilitator of genocide. Yes, politicians are flawed like all people are flawed. Genocide is not a run-of-the-mill flaw. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/34 "2019-12-11T16:39:19Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > In the end people are people, not gods. Which means a mix of better and worse. All I can hope for is that people learn something along the way, and become better than they used to be. I truly hope that’s the case for myself. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Plus even noble heroes are flawed. Washington and Mandela were not ascended beings, they were men, with virtues and defects and moral failings. It is true that no one is faultless, but there is a bit of a gap between having faults and presiding over ethnic cleansing. ETA: What Acsenray said. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/35 "2019-12-11T19:15:21Z")
Maybe she’s powerless to do anything. Myanmar was a military regime before she took office, and currently [they usually hold all top cabinet and ministry positions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar#Military). Scolding words don’t do much against weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/36 "2019-12-11T19:24:34Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Maybe she’s powerless to do anything. Myanmar was a military regime before she took office, and currently [they usually hold all top cabinet and ministry positions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar#Military). Scolding words don’t do much against weapons. That’s a bit out of date. Prior to 2008, the government was a military junta; since then, they have much less control of government (but are still entitled to seats in the legislature). Regardless, I very much doubt she’d agree to serve as a figurehead. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/37 "2019-12-11T22:22:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Gaining power is one thing, keeping it is another matter altogether. Gaining power is one thing, keeping it is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/38 "2019-12-11T23:40:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’d like to think, if I ran a country, that I could respond to allegations of genocide with a categorical “We are not killing people.” That wasn’t ever a realistic option for Myanmar. They have multiple separatist movements. One is among the Rohingya. The Rohingya have a couple decades of sporadic armed insurrections to try and achieve those separatist goals. Simply allowing the Rohingya to separate would encourage all the other separatist movements to use force. It would also create friction points for different interethnic violence as new states with new minorities struggled with the changes. Reforms that reduce the perceived injustices, like the Rohingya being legally barred from citizenship in Myanmar, could certainly help reduce both the numbers of and support for the separatists. That doesn’t completely remove the threat though. Security forces will still need to use violence as part of the package especially during the transition when people might not be as trusting of the new reforms. Sometimes that will result in killing people. That absolutely doesn’t excuse _how_ Myanmar’s security forces are using force. Pretending that there is a simple way out of this situation without killing anyone isn’t very realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/39 "2019-12-12T03:24:07Z")
What makes people think the military is not still in charge of the government of Myanmar? [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Myanmar#2015_election) is a great explanation of the current situation in the country: > [@](#): > > The president is the head of state and de jure head of government, and oversees the Cabinet of Myanmar. Currently the State Counsellor of Myanmar is the de facto head of government. > > On the other hand, Commander-in-chief of Defense ServicesTatmadaw has right to appoint 25% of members in all legislative assembly which means that the legislation cannot be Super-majority without support from Tatmadaw thus preventing from democratically elected members to amend 2008 Constitution of Myanmar which is not created by Burmese citizens. He can also directly appoint ministers in Ministry of Defence (Myanmar) which in turn controls Myanmar Armed Forces and Myanmar Economic Corporation which is the largest economic corporation in Myanmar, Ministry of Border Affairs (Myanmar) which control border affairs of the country and Ministry of Home Affairs (Myanmar) which in turn control Myanmar police forces and administration of the whole country. So, yeah. It’s supposedly not as bad as before, but the government reform looks a lot like window-dressing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839/40 "2019-12-12T04:13:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Gaining power is one thing, keeping it is another matter. If keeping power requires to be complicit in an ethnic cleansing campaign, well, I don’t think I need to elaborate on what kind of people would have any part in that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aung-san-suu-kyi-is-looking-like-such-a-disappointment/801839.md?page=3)