# Aurora spyplane: Does it exist? Did it ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793 "2009-04-21T00:30:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/1 "2009-04-21T00:30:45Z")
[Aurora (aircraft) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_aircraft)) Hard to believe the U.S. Air Force would’ve retired the SR-71 without another similar, high-speed aircraft to replace it. There’s been some superficial evidence to suggest that it exists, but it’s never been confirmed. Looks pretty cool, so I kinda hope it’s out there. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/2 "2009-04-21T00:41:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > [Aurora (aircraft) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(aircraft)) > > Hard to believe the U.S. Air Force would’ve retired the SR-71 without another similar, high-speed aircraft to replace it. There’s been some superficial evidence to suggest that it exists, but it’s never been confirmed. Looks pretty cool, so I kinda hope it’s out there. What do you think? The men in black messed with your link. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/3 "2009-04-21T00:43:09Z")
Add a ). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/4 "2009-04-21T00:45:53Z")
Damn it! The CIA got to wikipedia before I did, and now your link has been replaced with a “no exact match” error. (or you may have missed a “)” on your cut and paste) On topic, I suspect the official explanation, that spy satellites and unmanned spy-drones have destroyed the need for the high altitude spy plane seems pretty plausible. And I’m pretty skeptical the US would’ve approved another uber-expensive aircraft after the combination of the expense of the Stealth Bombers and the clamour to cut military spending after the end of the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/5 "2009-04-21T00:51:36Z")
The Blackbird still looks cooler than the Aurora. The Blackbird looks cooler than basically every plane, ever. It looks like the personal plane of Darth Vader’s cooler brother. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/6 "2009-04-21T01:10:27Z")
Blackbird fly, Blackbird fly Into the light of the dark black night. (you know I was just waiting for the right moment to arise before making that reference) How long was the stealth fighter/bomber kept under wraps before its unveiling? More than a couple years? More than five? Ten? That is, how is the government’s track record at keeping super-cool flying machines secret? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/7 "2009-04-21T01:13:00Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The Blackbird looks cooler than basically every plane, ever. It looks like the personal plane of Darth Vader’s cooler brother. I figure Amidala’s starship from _Phantom Menace_ is a Blackbird with some extra accessories. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/8 "2009-04-21T03:09:41Z")
D’oh! Take 2: > **[Aurora (aircraft)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(aircraft))** > > Aurora is a rumored mid-1980s American reconnaissance aircraft. There is no substantial evidence that it was ever built or flown and it has been termed a myth. > The U.S. government has consistently denied such an aircraft was ever built. Aviation and space reference site Aerospaceweb.org concluded, "The evidence supporting the Aurora is circumstantial or pure conjecture, there is little reason to contradict the government's position." And as penance, here are some additional (highly speculative) images: [![](https://masoodmemon.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/aurora_mach_6-plus_attack_us_war_aircraft1.jpg) ](https://masoodmemon.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/aurora_mach_6-plus_attack_us_war_aircraft1.jpg) [![](https://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/aurora/aurora_05.jpg) ](https://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/aurora/aurora_05.jpg) [![](https://www.up-ship.com/Aurora-BoxArt-FinalVersion-3001.jpg) ](https://www.up-ship.com/Aurora-BoxArt-FinalVersion-3001.jpg) > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/9 "2009-04-21T03:12:58Z")
Basically the take away from those images is that we’re not sure it exists, and have no idea what it might look like, but its definitely black 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/10 "2009-04-21T04:22:18Z")
I’m in the “why would anyone assume we need a faster manned spy aircraft to replace a fast manned spy aircraft” camp. Spy satellites were all over the freakin’ place by the time this Aurora story got started. It is like saying, the Army needs to replace this bolt action rifle with an even bolty-er bolt action rifle! Well, what about replacing the bolt action rifle with… something different? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/11 "2009-04-21T04:36:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m in the “why would anyone assume we need a faster manned spy aircraft to replace a fast manned spy aircraft” camp. Spy satellites were all over the freakin’ place by the time this Aurora story got started. > > It is like saying, the Army needs to replace this bolt action rifle with an even bolty-er bolt action rifle! Well, what about replacing the bolt action rifle with… something different? Much cheaper, quicker and less risky to do this with dozens of spy satellites. Plus, after 15 years in the internet age we have nothing in the way of a solid photos. So I sez no. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/12 "2009-04-21T06:57:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m in the “why would anyone assume we need a faster manned spy aircraft to replace a fast manned spy aircraft” camp. Spy satellites were all over the freakin’ place by the time this Aurora story got started Depends on what you mean by spy sats. Some of them are in low earth orbit and the big birds are in high orbit. Given enough time, people can guess whats commercial from whats military and what its intended or guessed purpose is. Once you have that , you can time your nefarious intentions like India did ,when it detonated that nuke a few years back. The satelites are great but they do have limitations, having a recon bird show up unannounced will augment your intel take from the sats, so you can compare images. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/13 "2009-04-21T06:59:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hard to believe the U.S. Air Force would’ve retired the SR-71 without another similar, high-speed aircraft to replace it. There’s been some superficial evidence to suggest that it exists, but it’s never been confirmed. Looks pretty cool, so I kinda hope it’s out there. What do you think? One way to confirm that something is out there is for someone to look up fuel production. Every thing that air and space mag has put out ,says that the new bird runs on exotic fuel. Find who makes that gas, and you find your smoking gun. Delcan ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/14 "2009-04-21T11:39:18Z")
I am convinced there is _something_ out there. If there is not, there _should_ be, because there is a solid need for fast-response imaging and data interception. The Blackbird was shut down at the _request_ of the AF, as well. I don’t think it’s the Aurora project, simply because that specifically was discovered to be something else, IIRC. If we don’t have anything, which is possible, it’s a pretty big flaw in our ability to cover hot-spots, as satellites are often not on station when you want them. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/15 "2009-04-21T12:07:44Z")
Satellites are incredibly expensive and can have a comparitively short “loiter time”,I think unmanned drones are the flavour of the month at the mo plus good old Humint and Sigint. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/16 "2009-04-21T13:52:19Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Satellites are incredibly expensive and can have a comparitively short “loiter time”,I think unmanned drones are the flavour of the month at the mo plus good old Humint and Sigint. Yes, the combination of drones and signal intelligence and satellites (and I guess I will concede some support from the vastly less important and less effective “Humint” [spies on the ground] community) are enough that no such plane is needed. However. Historically, leaders have shown a psychological need to “see” the opposition as directly as they can. Confederate General Polk was killed by a cannonball when he took an exposed position on a ridge to look at the enemy. Lincoln stood up for a better look as bullets whizzed past during Early’s raid on the entrenchments outside Washington, presenting his inimitable silhouette to sharpshooters and allegedly prompting future Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes to shout “Get down, you d–d fool!” It’s frequently remarked that modern attack sub skippers put the periscope up unnecessarily for an eyeballing of targets they already have a sonar lock on. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the powers that be have built such a craft, even at enormous cost, just to fill a deep-seated urge to get fast visual confirmation of things they already know. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/17 "2009-04-21T14:20:56Z")
Practically speaking, what would go into keeping a project like this secret? If it exists it would be a very big project. Lots of research, tests, parts being manufactured, and as far as I understand your government, the congress must have allocated funds for it. Could it be kept secret? ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/18 "2009-04-21T14:55:42Z")
I saw on a program that the Aurora rumor got started when a budget request included the item “Aurora” on it which disappeared from subsequent requests. Years later, I saw another program about the B-2 which mentioned the Aurora project and said that it was a series of upgrades to the B-2. Submitted for whatever that’s worth. Rob ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/19 "2009-04-21T15:30:20Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > I saw on a program that the Aurora rumor got started when a budget request included the item “Aurora” on it which disappeared from subsequent requests. Years later, I saw another program about the B-2 which mentioned the Aurora project and said that it was a series of upgrades to the B-2. Submitted for whatever that’s worth. > > Rob Yep, I remember the same thing. There are a couple of fundamental problems. One, some of the reports speak of it moving from the horizon to directly above (or vice versa, I forget) in some infinitessimally short period of time. How are you going to handle the g-forces on the pilot? Second, the Blackbird was IIRC fairly notorious for having a high number of crash landings. Among other things, high-speed landings (as with the Concorde) seem tough on any sort of tires. If this thing exists and is even faster than those two aircraft, how are stable landings going to work? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/20 "2009-04-21T15:35:46Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > One way to confirm that something is out there is for someone to look up fuel production. Every thing that air and space mag has put out ,says that the new bird runs on exotic fuel. Find who makes that gas, and you find your smoking gun. > > Delcan Boro ethane anyone? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793.md?page=2)