# Aurora spyplane: Does it exist? Did it ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793 "2009-04-21T00:30:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/41 "2009-09-09T19:01:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It isn’t all that stealthy…I achieved radar lock on it from the backseat of an F-4D–but I knew where to look, and the F-117 we were using had “enhancers” on it to make it easier to track on radar. So the story of a mockup being seen on test RADAR until the bird sitting on it was shooed away are untrue? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/42 "2009-09-09T19:26:39Z")
Probably not. Swedish interceptor pilots used to lock onto them for fun. ETA: Never mind. I see we’ve moved on from the SR-71. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/43 "2009-09-09T19:30:05Z")
During JUST CAUSE (the invasion of Panama) everyone wanted to get into the act. (With disastrous results, I might add.) So the Air Force sent an F-117 to Rio Hato to drop a single bomb in support of the Ranger’s drop on the old air field there. Thank goodness the bomb missed. The building they were aiming for was full of newly impressed draftees. It would have been horrible. Last time I looked, the crater was still there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/44 "2009-09-09T20:42:01Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I would think such a rocket launch would be picked up by the early-warning systems of countries like Russia and China, and possibly mistaken for an ICBM. I specified a sub-orbit launch. The rocket would be used as a booster/fuel tank to cut down on the cost of making a stealth aircraft large enough to carry fuel for a 6000 mile trip. When you look at the SR-71 A lot of the money goes into the size of the aircraft. They had the right idea with the D-21 drone program except they were using an expensive launch vehicle. The program later continued as a rocket assisted vehicle dropped from a B-52. that works fine if you have B-52’s stationed where you need them and is still a viable concept today. When you look at a real world scenario such as the Pueblo it makes sense to have assets stationed around the world. In that particular case, they had the right plane in the right spot but delayed launching it. A smaller/faster vehicle would have made up the difference. If your assets are farther away and the carrier vehicle is slow then a 2-stage system gets the stealth vehicle to the border where it can be deployed. Boosters are cheap to make which makes them disposable so there isn’t an expensive maintenance program like there is on a stealth bomber or an SR-71. note: I incorrectly listed the M-21 spy plane as an M-12 earlier. (It’s based off the CIA’s A-12, which was the precursor to the SR-71). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/45 "2009-09-10T01:22:43Z")
One problem is that nothing flying at Mach 4 or faster is going to be stealthy. Not only will it produce a huge sonic boom but it will glow brightly in the infrared (or even visibly!) from it’s own frictional heat. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/46 "2009-09-10T01:40:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > One problem is that nothing flying at Mach 4 or faster is going to be stealthy. Not only will it produce a huge sonic boom but it will glow brightly in the infrared (or even visibly!) from it’s own frictional heat. Perhaps they slow down to take pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/47 "2009-09-10T02:42:00Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > One problem is that nothing flying at Mach 4 or faster is going to be stealthy. Not only will it produce a huge sonic boom but it will glow brightly in the infrared (or even visibly!) from it’s own frictional heat. MACH 4 hell, at Mach 3.2 the interior window of the SR-71 could be used as a toaster oven. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/48 "2009-09-10T02:49:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > MACH 4 hell, at Mach 3.2 the interior window of the SR-71 could be used as a toaster oven. I have been given to understand the crew wore gloves lest they touch the windows and burn themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/49 "2009-09-10T03:17:04Z")
Wouldn’t they have been wearing gloves as part of their pressure suits? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/50 "2009-09-10T03:36:28Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Depends on what you mean by spy sats. Some of them are in low earth orbit and the big birds are in high orbit. Given enough time, people can guess whats commercial from whats military and what its intended or guessed purpose is. Once you have that , you can time your nefarious intentions like India did ,when it detonated that nuke a few years back. > > The satelites are great but they do have limitations, having a recon bird show up unannounced will augment your intel take from the sats, so you can compare images. > > Declan I remember a Tom Clancy book in which the bad guys (middle eastern terrorists, IIRC) have the time tables of every spy sat that recons their training ground and all hid inside when the sat passed. Of course, this was in the 80s - there are probably lots more spy sats up there these days. But even so, they have predictable trajectories, and pretty much constant speed so, yes, they’re not the end all, be all of sneaking pics. However, I think these days the US military is very much about drones and the like, which makes sense - smaller, cheaper, no pilot to risk… It would make more sense to try and develop an absurdly long range/high endurance drone than an omagahdsofarbeyondultrasonic spy plane. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/51 "2009-09-10T03:41:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Wouldn’t they have been wearing gloves as part of their pressure suits? Can’t find it quickly but I believe they wore either wore a custom suit commisioned for the project or an insulated suit with a pressurized helmet. Not sure if that’s related to a time line or was an agency preference. I would imagine the windows acted like infrared heaters. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/52 "2009-09-10T04:19:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I remember a Tom Clancy book in which the bad guys (middle eastern terrorists, IIRC) have the time tables of every spy sat that recons their training ground and all hid inside when the sat passed. > Of course, this was in the 80s - there are probably lots more spy sats up there these days. But even so, they have predictable trajectories, and pretty much constant speed so, yes, they’re not the end all, be all of sneaking pics. Dunno about Clancy’s bad guys, but when I was in service, there were certain missions that were scheduled specifically to avoid Russian spy sats. On the gloves question, all air crew in the Air Force were issued gloves as part of their flight gear back in the day. I assume that’s still the drill. The SR71 guys had special suits, and the gloves they wore were part of those suits, at least from the scuttlebutt I heard from some of the life support guys that worked on that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/53 "2009-09-10T12:11:21Z")
[The SR-71 Pilot Full Pressure Suit](http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/press_suit001.html) ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/55 "2009-09-11T15:23:02Z")
Reported. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/56 "2009-09-11T15:31:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I remember a Tom Clancy book [hijack] You sure? I remember that being used in Patriot Games. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/57 "2009-09-11T15:37:56Z")
I R Dum. Didn’t realize that Patriot Games was based on a Clancy novel. Nothing to see here, move along, move along. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/58 "2009-10-14T13:56:53Z")
Update: [Pentagon Eyes Spaceplane for Speedy Recon](http://warisboring.com/?p=2675) “Twenty years after the U.S. Air Force first retired its SR-71 spy plane, and 11 years after a handful of the Mach-3 jets was briefly returned to military service, the military has finally identified a candidate to replace the famed Blackbird. The Pentagon’s secretive National Security Space Office is navigating a minefield of budgetary perils, bureaucratic expectations and industry inhibitions, to turn a experimental, civilian “space plane” into a high-speed, responsive reconnaissance craft.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/59 "2009-10-14T16:59:57Z")
Interesting idea - that could actually work! Not as cool as the Aurora, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/60 "2009-10-14T17:28:07Z")
And here I was hoping for pulse detonation engines. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793/61 "2009-10-14T18:42:03Z")
We were only waiting for this moment to arise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aurora-spyplane-does-it-exist-did-it-ever/493793.md?page=4)