# Aussie Dopers: How do I cite your Constitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 23, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396 "2008-03-23T01:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/1 "2008-03-23T01:01:03Z")
Continuing **Piper’s World Tour of Constitutional Citation** , how do I cite the Australian Constitution? My understanding is that the Constitution is set out by s. 9 of the [Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act](http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/general/constitution/preamble.htm) (U.K.) 63 & 64 Vict., c. 1900. So do you cite to the British Act, s. 9, or just ‘_Constitution of Australia_, s. ##’, or ‘_Constitution of Australia_, s. ##, as enacted by the _Commonwealth of Australia Act_, (U.K.) 63 & 64 Vict., c. 1900’, or what? Are the first 8 sections of the British Act considered to be part of the Australian Constitution? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/2 "2008-03-23T09:25:51Z")
Bump. I have no idea. Many Aussies probably don’t even know they have a constitution. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/3 "2008-03-23T09:32:53Z")
I’m afraid I’m not much help either. We need **Princhester** or someone to happen along with the facts. From memory, it’s just cited as “Section [whatever] of _The Constitution_”, but don’t bet your house on that until we get somebody who’s sure. ---
**Author:** ![Caught\_Work](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Caught\_Work](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caught_Work)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/4 "2008-03-23T10:23:20Z")
[http://mulr.law.unimelb.edu.au/PDFs/aglc\_dl.pdf](http://mulr.law.unimelb.edu.au/PDFs/aglc_dl.pdf) (obviously PDF), section 3.3 on page 57. Followed by “ya bastard”. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/5 "2008-03-23T10:33:20Z")
It’s been a while since I’ve had to do this at Uni, but my copy of _Constitutional Law in Australia (Second Edition)_ by Peter Hanks, and published in 1996 by LexisNexis/Butterworths, cites the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia as “Commonwealth Constitution s X”. In other words, it’s taken as read that you’re referring to the Constitution of Australia, and not the constitution of, say, the State of Massachusetts in the US. If you wanted to cite another Commonwealth’s constitution, you’d use something like “Constitution of the Commonwealth of (Wherever), s X”. My understanding of the general principles surrounding general legal citations in Australia is that you’d cite the Australian Constitution as “s X _The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act_ 1900 (Imp)” if you wanted to be ultra-formal about the whole thing and refer to the original legislation which enacted it, but when I was at Uni, the version in the textbook was considered more than acceptable, and was the version used by pretty much everyone, IIRC. No doubt a Commonwealth Law-Talking Guy (or Gal) will be along in due course to give us the Official answer, though! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/6 "2008-03-23T10:54:19Z")
You can also refer to the 128 parts of the Constitution as “sections”, e.g.: “Section 128 deals with how the Constitution is amended.” Some of the sections are divided into parts with roman numerals, and these are referred to as “placitums” (I haven’t seen the word “placita” used). The heaviest use of this word is in referring to Section 51, which enumerates the powers of the Parliament, e.g., “Placitum xx of Section 51 is usually referred to as the ‘Corporations Power’.” ---
**Author:** ![robinc308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@robinc308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinc308)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/7 "2008-03-23T11:07:30Z")
When refering to the Constitution , you only need to refer to “the vibe” of the Constitution, no need to be specific 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/8 "2008-03-23T15:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=robinc308] When refering to the Constitution , you only need to refer to “the vibe” of the Constitution, no need to be specific 🙂 [/QUOTE] This is a reference to the wonderful movie [The Castle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118826/), the plot of which turns around (among other things) the Constitution - s 51(xxxi) – or, at least, the “vibe” of that placitum. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/9 "2008-03-23T15:27:07Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] This is a reference to the wonderful movie [The Castle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118826/), the plot of which turns around (among other things) the Constitution - s 51(xxxi) – or, at least, the “vibe” of that placitum. [/QUOTE] Believe it or not, in my first year of law school, _The Castle_ was shown to our Property Law class. Flash forward two years, to just last February, when I’m participating in a competitive moot. At issue are two sections of the Canadian constitution. A member of the other team, who was in our first-year Property class, is speaking on rebuttal, and makes reference to “the vibe” of a certain section. Everybody–judges, our side, the students in the gallery–gets the joke. And his side wins. ☹ Not sure if his remarks were helped by referring to “the vibe” or not, but they obviously didn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/10 "2008-03-24T01:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I haven’t seen the word “placita” used [/QUOTE] All of my lecturers referred to them in the plural as _placita_. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/11 "2008-03-24T11:42:00Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons] Believe it or not, in my first year of law school, _The Castle_ was shown to our Property Law class. [/QUOTE] The movie has given (at least) two standard slang expressions to the world of practicing lawyers in Australia. A _Dennis Denuto_ is a hapless but nice suburban lawyer who is way out of his depth. And most famously, _“It’s the vibe”_ which is of course the standard sarcastic comment to make about someone’s floundering inability to explain why something means what they want it to mean. I see your law school story and raise you by a Federal Court of Appeal story. I had an appeal in 2006 against a Sydney silk who is infamous for rambling emotional claptrap bereft of logic or (accurate) citation of facts in evidence. He was desperately trying to fend off penetrating questions from an unsympathetic bench while explaining why a section of the Constitution helped his case. At one point he started to say, “Well, your honours, its…” and then paused. Without missing a beat my silk muttered, _sotto voce_, “… the vibe” To give him his due, our opponent has a sense of humour and did crack a smile, and the whole bench had a difficult job keeping poker faced. Needless to say, our opponent moved on from that point rather quickly. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/12 "2008-03-24T13:16:37Z")
To be fair, “it’s the vibe” is not a bad dramatic way to explain to the layman the (now unpopular) doctrine of implied rights. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/13 "2008-03-25T19:53:22Z")
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I don’t think referring to it just as “Commonwealth Constitution” would work in a Canadian publication - not many here know that usage, and would probably be thinking about the Commonwealth of Nations. Maybe something like “Commonwealth of Australia Constitution”, followed by the relevant section number? And no cite to the original British Act? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/14 "2008-03-25T20:44:31Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Maybe something like “Commonwealth of Australia Constitution”, followed by the relevant section number? And no cite to the original British Act? [/QUOTE] Either “Commonwealth of Australia Constitution” or “Australian Constitution” would work outside Australia. And it’s not required to cite the British Act, unless you are specifically referring to the covering clauses which are not part of the Constitution. It’s unlike the Canadian situation, where the Canadian Constitution was for a long time referred to as the “British North America Act”, until it was patriated as the “Constition Act 1867”. The Australian Constitution always was under Australian control, so never needed to be patriated, except perhaps for the covering clauses. If those covering clauses ever needed to be amended, it’s debatable how they could be changed. One way might be for the Australian Parliament to request the UK Parliament to amend them. The possible need to amend a covering clause arose about a decade ago during the debate about Australian becoming a republic, when it was argued that s. 2 of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 might need to be changed: > [@](#): > > 1. The provisions of this Act referring to the Queen shall extend to Her Majesty’s heirs and successors in the sovereignty of the United Kingdom. That section might limit how the Australian monarchy could be abolished and replaced by an office such as President of Australia. Or it might not: I think expert opinion is divided. In any case, if an amendment were thought necessary, after Australians had voted in a referendum to abolish the Australian monarchy, I’m sure the UK Parliament would be cooperative 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Caught\_Work](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Caught\_Work](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caught_Work)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/15 "2008-03-25T22:22:22Z")
The pdf I linked to advises the following: > [@](#): > > The _Australian Constitution_ may be cited as the _Australian Constitution_, the _Commonwealth Constitution_, or simply the \*Constitution \*if there is no ambiguity as to which constitution is being cited. So if you’re going to refer to our constitution and the reference may be ambiguous, use _Australian Constitution_. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/16 "2008-03-25T23:37:28Z")
Now, how did I miss your original post?!? Thanks, **Caught@Work** (and everyone else). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-dopers-how-do-i-cite-your-constitution/442396/17 "2008-03-26T00:04:51Z")
[QUOTE=hawthorne] To be fair, “it’s the vibe” is not a bad dramatic way to explain to the layman the (now unpopular) doctrine of implied rights. [/QUOTE] Whatever happened to the perfectly good “penumbra?” I always thought you talked about the penumbra of ammendment/section/article/whatever x gives us the right to… for example teh penumbra of the US first ammendment is the right of freedom of expression.