# Aussie Senator "Embarassed" to be Canadian **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580 "2017-07-18T17:22:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/1 "2017-07-18T17:22:15Z")
Come on - “embarrassed”?!? A bit harsh. Puzzled, surprised, taken aback, sure, but “embarrassed”? Australian Senator Resigns After Learning She’s Also Canadian > **[Australian senator resigns after learning she's also Canadian | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/australian-senator-resigns-after-learning-she-s-also-canadian-1.4209902)** > > An Australian senator has resigned after learning she was also a Canadian. She left Canada at 11 months old. Looks like her parents fell for that urban legend that you have to assert Canadian citizenship when you turn 21. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/2 "2017-07-18T17:27:00Z")
I can understand the embarrassment if it was the other way round 🙂 Embarrassed? Ashamed? Regretful? Nah, if she’s really part Canadian she’ll just be apologetic. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/3 "2017-07-18T18:10:36Z")
Breastfeeding in Parliament? Wait what? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/4 "2017-07-18T18:33:36Z")
The shame is from living a lie. Plus she sounds remarkably self-important; still, what a stupid rule. Constitutions are straight-jackets. In Britain we had Indian, Australian, **[Jewish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Jewish_politicians)** born abroad, ( not Dizzy, like Marx he was christian ), Iraqi, American, Jamaican etc. etc. MPs. We had a _Canadian_ prime minister ( and almost another as Beaverbook was, like Churchill, Lloyd George’s acolyte ) in Bonar Law. We even had _ **Trebitsch-Lincoln** _. Jewish-Anglican-Buddhist, missionary to Canada, artist, aide to various proto-nazi putchists, advisor to three warlords in China, Buddhist abbot, jailbird… truthfully he was 99% better than most of our native-born MPs. But it’s a dubious profession at the best of times. _With Rowntree’s support, he was nominated in 1909 as the prospective Liberal candidate for the Parliamentary constituency of Darlington in County Durham, even though he was still a Hungarian citizen at the time. In the election of January 1910 he beat the sitting Unionist, whose family had held the seat for decades._ ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/5 "2017-07-18T18:41:57Z")
I don;t think she is embarrassed to be Canadian: she is embarrassed because being Canadian make her in breach of the Australian Constitution by being a Senator. She could have easily rectified the situation before first running for election, by gong to the Canadian High Commission and renouncing her citizenship, but she didn’t realise that she needed to. She checked up on her status because another Senator from the Australian Greens resigned about a week ago after realising that he was a dual Australian and New Zealand citizen. He thought he had lost his NZ citizenship by naturalising as an Australian. It’s actually quite common for dual citizens to have to renounce their other citizenship before becoming members of the Australian Parliament. Two recent prime ministers (Abbott and Gillard) were born in the UK, and so were born British citizens. The leader of the opposition in the Senate (Penny Wong) was born in Malaysia. Another prominent Senator (Sam Dastyari) was born in Iran, and reportedly had to spend $25,000 in the process of renouncing his Iranian citiizenship. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/6 "2017-07-18T18:45:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Come on - “embarrassed”?!? A bit harsh. Puzzled, surprised, taken aback, sure, but “embarrassed”? > > Australian Senator Resigns After Learning She’s Also Canadian > > [Australian senator resigns after learning she's also Canadian | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/australian-senator-resigns-after-learning-she-s-also-canadian-1.4209902) > > Looks like her parents fell for that urban legend that you have to assert Canadian citizenship when you turn 21. Read your own link. She never says that she embarrassed to be Canadian. > [@](#): > > Waters said other foreign-born lawmakers among the 226 in Parliament could find themselves in a similar predicament. > > “There are many politicians in the Senate and the federal House of Representatives that were born overseas and it may well be that others have to make this embarrassing revelation as well,” she told reporters. In context, it’s clear that she means it’s embarrassing to have to resign your elected position over a foreign citizenship that you might not even have been aware you held. There is no implication in this quote, or in anything else she says, that she’s embarrassed to be Canadian. The closet you might reasonably get is to assert that she’s embarrassed that she never realized before now that she still held Canadian citizenship. **mhendo** , dual Canadian/Australian citizen ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/7 "2017-07-18T18:48:33Z")
I don’t know which is more remarkable, that SHE didn’t know, or that it wasn’t uncovered when she joined the senate! ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/8 "2017-07-18T18:51:27Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > … still, what a stupid rule. Constitutions are straight-jackets. … It’s a rule that was accepted by the Australian people when they voted in 1900 to accept the Australian Constitution, and it would require a referendum to change or remove the rule. Part of the problem is that it refers to: > [@](#): > > Any person who … Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power Back in 1900, none of Canada, New Zealand or the United Kingdom (or possibly Malaya) would have been considered a “foreign power”, but they have since moved to independence within the Commonwealth. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/9 "2017-07-18T20:02:46Z")
Little bit of a click-bait thread title, dontcha think? She wasn’t embarrassed to be Canadian. She was embarrased to discover the she had dual citizenship, and therefore had to resign her position. The Canadian part had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/10 "2017-07-18T21:29:49Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I don’t know which is more remarkable, that SHE didn’t know, or that it wasn’t uncovered when she joined the senate! She was born to Australian parents in Canada, then they returned to live in Australia when she was still a young child. I can understand why she’d not give her Canadianess another thought. IOW, totally unremarkable IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/11 "2017-07-18T21:30:37Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I don;t think she is embarrassed to be Canadian: she is embarrassed because being Canadian make her in breach of the Australian Constitution by being a Senator. Yep, this. Although because recreational outrage is basically a sport in Canada, we’re going to see pearl clutching on the nightly news with a side order of “tut-tut.” ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/12 "2017-07-19T17:49:11Z")
What I wonder is why this senator has to resign now. Yes, Australian law forbids senators from being citizens of other countries, presumably for reasons of conflicting loyalties, but 1) she never used her Canadian citizenship in any way, never held a Canadian passport or voted in Canadian elections, 2) she wasn’t even aware that she held Canadian citizenship, so it’s clearly a good faith error, and 3) the first thing she’ll probably do now is renounce her Canadian citizenship. Why isn’t she allowed to simply regularize her situation? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/13 "2017-07-19T17:53:33Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > What I wonder is why this senator has to resign now. Yes, Australian law forbids senators from being citizens of other countries, presumably for reasons of conflicting loyalties, but 1) she never used her Canadian citizenship in any way, never held a Canadian passport or voted in Canadian elections, 2) she wasn’t even aware that she held Canadian citizenship, so it’s clearly a good faith error, and 3) the first thing she’ll probably do now is renounce her Canadian citizenship. Why isn’t she allowed to simply regularize her situation? It’s not just law; it’s the Constitution. In practical terms, i agree with basically everything you say, but it could be that there’s simply not enough wiggle room without a constitutional amendment. If it were just a law, presumably the parliament could simply pass another law to take care of circumstances like this, but constitutional issues are a bit harder to get around. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/14 "2017-07-19T18:17:43Z")
Both senators who had to resign were Greens, and as a Greens voter the lack of professionalism shown by the party in failing to fulfill all the required conditions for their candidates is completely embarrassing. Not least because “did he or didn’t he” renounce citizenship was a big talking point against Abbott when he was in power, so it really beggars belief how anyone who’s been paying any attention to politics over the last two years can _not realise_ that it’s a thing. Though I have more sympathy for Larissa Waters than Scott Ludlam, since apparently only a week separates her birth date from someone who really wouldn’t have a Canadian citizenship claim. Anyway, there’s absolutely nothing stopping an O/S-born Australian being in government. Since nearly 30% of us are O/S-born, it would be a bit of a problem if it did! You just have to do the paperwork properly first. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, the first time Tony Abbott ever publicly provided the proof of his own renunciation, that everybody was speculating about when he was PM, was this week when he tweeted it after Ludlum’s resignation. Now that is one cold burn. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/15 "2017-07-19T18:22:37Z")
So her parents gave birth to her IN Canada, and it never crossed their minds? They never bothered to ask? No one ever remarked when they were here? Or at the hospital? It stretches believability to me, to be honest. Like, just how clueless are those parents? Or even as an adult who _knows_ they were born on foreign soil, if you know constitutionally it’s required, wouldn’t you be inclined to ask a few questions, do some double checking, before taking a seat in the senate? I mean maybe you don’t know how it is dual citizen wise, but surely you’re aware of the constitutional rules. Wouldn’t you then at least check? The whole thing just seems weird. Why wouldn’t she just denounce her dual citizenship rather than step down? Very weird if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/16 "2017-07-19T22:16:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So her parents gave birth to her IN Canada, and it never crossed their minds? They never bothered to ask? No one ever remarked when they were here? Or at the hospital? > > It stretches believability to me, to be honest. Like, just how clueless are those parents? \<…snip\> The answers to all your questions can be found in the third paragraph of **Northern Piper** ’s link: > [@](#): > > “I have lived my life thinking that as a baby I was naturalized to be Australian and only Australian, and my parents told me that I had until age 21 to actively seek Canadian citizenship. At 21, I chose not to seek dual citizenship, and I have never even visited Canada since leaving at 11 months old,” the statement read. As **NP** notes, the “you have until age 21 to assert citizenship” belief is incorrect, and I rather like his styling of this belief as an urban legend. I don’t think that the parents were clueless; rather, they were simply misinformed. In short, her parents gave her incorrect information, she believed it, did not look further into the matter, and found that her belief was ultimately wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/17 "2017-07-19T23:12:29Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Why wouldn’t she just denounce her dual citizenship rather than step down? The Constitution says that foreign citizens are “incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator.” So her election was void, whatever she does now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/18 "2017-07-19T23:49:06Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The Constitution says that foreign citizens are “incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator.” So her election was void, whatever she does now. Right. She can renounce, and then run again, but a renunciation doesn’t retroactively make her initial election valid. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/19 "2017-07-20T00:04:31Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Another prominent Senator (Sam Dastyari) was born in Iran, and reportedly had to spend $25,000 in the process of renouncing his Iranian citiizenship. And if Iran had simply refused the renounciation? Is there a process to count “I tried, but I can’t get rid of the citizenship” as good enough? If not one weird consequence of the rule is that in some cases you’ve essentially given veto power to Iran over Australian senatorial candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580/20 "2017-07-20T00:44:47Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > And if Iran had simply refused the renounciation? Is there a process to count “I tried, but I can’t get rid of the citizenship” as good enough? [Yes:](http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/backgrounders/constitutional-disqual-intending-candidates.htm#heading6) > [@](#): > > Taking all reasonable steps necessitates the use of renunciation procedures of the other country where such procedures are available. If the other country refuses renunciation then proof of requesting renunciation is sufficient. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aussie-senator-embarassed-to-be-canadian/791580.md?page=2)