# Austin, Texas explosions (a 4th one has been reported) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 19, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806 "2018-03-19T03:21:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/41 "2018-03-21T18:47:15Z")
Perhaps we need definitions. Domestic terrorism vs. Mid East terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/42 "2018-03-21T19:58:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps we need definitions. Domestic terrorism vs. Mid East terrorism. The article provided this definition: > [@](#): > > The official definition of “terrorist act” from the Federal Bureau of Investigation requires the violence to have a specific “political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.” I don’t know that geographic determinations alone, as you seemed to suggest, are a good classification system (other than perhaps domestic vs international). For example, some recent examples of Islamic-extremism-motivated “terrorism” are also “domestic”. The Fort Hood shooter was born in Virginia. The male shooter from San Bernardino was born in Chicago. The Pulse nightclub shooter was born in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/43 "2018-03-21T20:26:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The article provided this definition: [Here are various definitions](http://www.secbrief.org/2014/04/definition-of-terrorism/): > [@](#): > > Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Definition of Terrorism > Under Section 2 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002: > > (15) The term ‘‘terrorism’’ means any activity that— (A) involves an act that— (i) is dangerous to human life or potentially destructive of critical infrastructure or key resources; and (ii) is a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State or other subdivision of the United States; and (B) appears to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping. Other departments use similar language, but this one is the most thorough. AIUI, if this guy were targeting black people because he dislikes black people–even if he later expanded his targets–that would comprise a “social objective,” which is one of the [FBI criteria](https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005). > [@FBI](#): > > There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” I’ll wait and see, but this sure as hell looks like terrorism to me at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/44 "2018-03-21T21:41:17Z")
Their statement - “no apparent nexus to terrorism at this time” - implies that they aren’t even considering the possibility that his act itself may be considered terrorism. As if “terrorism” is, by definition, something done by terrorist organizations. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/45 "2018-03-21T21:52:47Z")
Come on, now. We all know that a violent act counts as terrorism if one of two things is true: (a) it fits a subtle and difficult-to-quantify set of conditions involving motivation and desired outcome or (b) the perpetrator was Muslim Seriously, I don’t think the problem is that we’re insufficiently willing to label violent crimes as terrorism when they’re committed by whites, I think the problem is that we automatically label violent crimes as terrorism when committed by Muslims, and then the more fair-minded among us want to apply that same standard to crimes committed by whites, at which point the word loses all meaning. In any case, it’s a semantic dispute whose importance is blown way out of proportion. For instance, the San Bernadino shooter was the example that I think is most likely a non-terrorist killer who was labelled a terrorist because of his background. And it was being done as some sort of reflexive labelling to score some abstruse political point or other, not because deciding whether it was or was not terrorism had any practical impact on whatever law enforcement steps would come next. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/46 "2018-03-21T22:17:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … In any case, it’s a semantic dispute whose importance is blown way out of proportion. For instance, the San Bernadino shooter was the example that I think is most likely a non-terrorist killer who was labelled a terrorist because of his background. And it was being done as some sort of reflexive labelling to score some abstruse political point or other, not because deciding whether it was or was not terrorism had any practical impact on whatever law enforcement steps would come next. You don’t think the Inland Regional Center attack was terrorism?!? > [@](#): > > The investigation found that the perpetrators were **inspired by Islamic terrorists and terrorist organizations**.[89] In Senate Judiciary Committee testimony given on December 9, 2015, FBI Director James B. Comey said that they “were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom,” before their engagement and as early as the end of 2013.[90][91] They reportedly spent at least a year preparing for the attack, including taking target practice and making plans to take care of their child and Farook’s mother.[92] Comey has said that although the investigation has shown that the couple was radicalized and possibly inspired by foreign terrorist organizations, there is no indication that they were directed by such a group or part of a broader cell or network.[2][93][94] > > On December 16, 2015, Comey said, “We can see from our investigation that in late 2013, before there is a physical meeting of these two people [Farook and Malik] resulting in their engagement and then journey to the United States, they are communicating online, showing signs in that communication of their joint commitment to jihadism and to martyrdom. Those communications are direct, private messages.”[95][96] Comey said that the FBI’s investigation had revealed that the perpetrators were “consuming poison on the Internet” and both had become radicalized “before they started courting or dating each other online” and “before the emergence of ISIL.”[95][97] As a result, Comey said that “untangling the motivations of which particular terrorist propaganda motivated in what way remains a challenge in these investigations, and our work is ongoing there.”[95] > > In one Arabic-language online radio broadcast, ISIL described the perpetrators as “supporters” following the attack. During the police investigation into the attack, The New York Times reported that this language indicated “a less direct connection” between the shooters and the terrorist group.[98][99] In a December 5, 2015, English-language broadcast on its Bayan radio station, ISIL referred to the couple as “soldiers of the caliphate,” which is a phrase ISIL uses to denote members of the terrorist organization. The New York Times reported that it was unclear why the two versions differed.[98] > > On December 1, 2016, nearly one year after the attack, authorities speculated on Farook’s forced participation in the training event and Christmas party as the trigger. Newly discovered emails indicated that Malik had objected to the party and did not want her husband to participate. San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said in an interview with ABC News that Malik stated that “she didn’t think that a Muslim should have to participate in a non-Muslim holiday or event” in an online account.[100] [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Motive) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/47 "2018-03-21T22:48:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You don’t think the Inland Regional Center attack was terrorism?!? I haven’t followed the story closely… the impression I remember having at the time was that the perpetrators were planning to attack a more traditional terrorist target (ie, a power plant or something), and then basically got in a big ugly argument with someone at work, so just brought all their terrorist supplies to the work party and started killing people there. But that was (I admit) only a casual opinion formed on the basis of fairly early reports. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/48 "2018-03-21T23:08:18Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I haven’t followed the story closely… the impression I remember having at the time was that the perpetrators were planning to attack a more traditional terrorist target (ie, a power plant or something), and then basically got in a big ugly argument with someone at work, so just brought all their terrorist supplies to the work party and started killing people there. > > But that was (I admit) only a casual opinion formed on the basis of fairly early reports. That said, I think this kind of perfectly encapsulates my point. The following two statements are inarguably true: (1) There are lots of Muslims committing terroristic violence all around the world. Muslim extremism is a real and pressing problem (2) The killers in San Bernadino were Muslims So what if we found out with absolute certainty that the San Bernadino killers were in fact just “garden variety” disgruntled office workers, motivated purely by whatever assholish tendencies cause “normal” workplace massacres? Or what if we found out with absolute certainty that they were motivated entirely by religiously-motivated extremist ideology, and intended the attack to strike a blow against western decadence, ie, textbook terrorism. Neither one of those conclusions affects the truth of (1) at all. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/49 "2018-03-21T23:14:20Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > That said, I think this kind of perfectly encapsulates my point. The following two statements are inarguably true: > (1) There are lots of Muslims committing terroristic violence all around the world. Muslim extremism is a real and pressing problem > (2) The killers in San Bernadino were Muslims > So what if we found out with absolute certainty that the San Bernadino killers were in fact just “garden variety” disgruntled office workers, motivated purely by whatever assholish tendencies cause “normal” workplace massacres? Or what if we found out with absolute certainty that they were motivated entirely by religiously-motivated extremist ideology, and intended the attack to strike a blow against western decadence, ie, textbook terrorism. Neither one of those conclusions affects the truth of (1) at all. Yes, my aside about the San Bernardino killers was not intended as a rebuttal of (I think) your central conclusion: that “deciding whether it was or was not terrorism” does not have “any practical impact on whatever law enforcement steps would come next.” I agree with that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/50 "2018-03-22T03:36:00Z")
From what I’ve heard about what investigators have found in his house, this young man sounded like an absolute train wreck. I’m sure we’ll get more details in the days to come. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/51 "2018-03-22T04:33:23Z")
I was surprised that he lived with two housemates. My best guess would’ve been that he lived with (and was supported by) his mother. This guy was ready to die, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/52 "2018-03-22T06:14:08Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Come on, now. We all know that a violent act counts as terrorism if one of two things is true: > (a) it fits a subtle and difficult-to-quantify set of conditions involving motivation and desired outcome > or > (b) the perpetrator was Muslim Or (c), the perpetrator is left wing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/53 "2018-03-22T06:23:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or (c), the perpetrator is left wing. Was the guy that shot up the Congressional charity baseball practice ever officially labelled a terrorist? (sincere question, I don’t know the answer) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/54 "2018-03-22T06:39:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Was the guy that shot up the Congressional charity baseball practice ever officially labelled a terrorist? (sincere question, I don’t know the answer) [Not that I know of](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/virginia-shooting-baseball-republican-congressman-steve-scalise-white-islam-isis-race-a7791731.html); but he was white, and not really left wing, just pro-Democrat. So center-right, not left wing. Therefore, not a terrorist; wrong skin color, wrong politics. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/55 "2018-03-22T12:41:34Z")
Three packages exploded when they were moved, and one exploded on a conveyor belt. It looks as though the [police rammed the bomber’s truck](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/21/officer-involved-shooting-in-texas-unclear-if-bomb-related.html). I wonder of that is what set off the bomb in his car. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/56 "2018-03-22T14:48:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Not that I know of](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/virginia-shooting-baseball-republican-congressman-steve-scalise-white-islam-isis-race-a7791731.html); but he was white, and not really left wing, just pro-Democrat. So center-right, not left wing. > > Therefore, not a terrorist; wrong skin color, wrong politics. So d), is a true Scotsman. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Was the guy that shot up the Congressional charity baseball practice ever officially labelled a terrorist? (sincere question, I don’t know the answer) Depends on what you consider official. [Cite](https://wtop.com/alexandria/2017/10/police-justified-fatal-shooting-alexandria-baseball-field-gunman/). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/57 "2018-03-22T15:58:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Not that I know of](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/virginia-shooting-baseball-republican-congressman-steve-scalise-white-islam-isis-race-a7791731.html); but he was white, and not really left wing, just pro-Democrat. So center-right, not left wing. > > Therefore, not a terrorist; wrong skin color, wrong politics. I’m not sure we’re understanding each other. Is it your contention that the Bernie Sanders supporter who took the radical step of trying to murder Congressional Republicans is actually on the “center-right” side of the political spectrum? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/58 "2018-03-22T16:13:34Z")
If anyone wants to debate the media’s (or anyone else’s) definition of terrorist take it to another thread. Do not continue to hijack this one. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806/59 "2018-03-23T05:44:00Z")
Given my well-documented hatred of Texas, I’m kind of surprised no one here thought I might be the bomber. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/austin-texas-explosions-a-4th-one-has-been-reported/810806.md?page=2)