# Australia is the only former UK colony without an indigenous treaty.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 26, 2016, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245 "2016-01-26T08:04:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/41 "2016-01-27T11:35:35Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Its a grey area, but in the context I used it, arguing for a treaty and a day that “blackfella and whitefella” can celebrate together I don’t think any aboriginal people would be offended.
It’s a grey area - that’s rich. But I think you are right. I’m white and know Aboriginal people I can say it to without any problem but other people may take offence so I wouldn’t say it now. The word does pop up in the media once in a while, particularly on the ABC and _Blackfella Films_ present plenty of stuff there too.
In fact thinking about it the use of that whole phrase “blackfella and whitefella” is quite inclusive. Worked out OK for the Warumpi Band anyway.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/42 "2016-01-27T12:03:00Z")
You gotta be careful when starting a thread like this. It could boomerang on you.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/43 "2016-01-27T17:00:23Z")
Why would you willingly create a country where you have different laws depending on the race? Racial balkanization is so 19th century. Are there specific laws that you feel should apply only to blackfellas or whitefellas? What about the yellow fellas? Do they get their own laws too?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/44 "2016-01-28T03:29:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> Why would you willingly create a country where you have different laws depending on the race? Racial balkanization is so 19th century. Are there specific laws that you feel should apply only to blackfellas or whitefellas? What about the yellow fellas? Do they get their own laws too?
It’s not different laws depending on the race, its the ability for them to set their own laws inside their sovereign first nations. There is a big big difference.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/45 "2016-01-28T04:04:26Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> It’s not different laws depending on the race, its the ability for them to set their own laws inside their sovereign first nations. There is a big big difference.
The problem you’re ignoring is that there will almost certainly be non-aboriginals living on whatever land a treaty grants them, unless you’re planning on putting their land in the desert. So you have to address that in some way. Is it going to be tough shit for them, as fair payback for their ancestors stealing the land, or would you expect something different from this treaty?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/46 "2016-01-28T04:19:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> The problem you’re ignoring is that there will almost certainly be non-aboriginals living on whatever land a treaty grants them, unless you’re planning on putting their land in the desert. So you have to address that in some way. Is it going to be tough shit for them, as fair payback for their ancestors stealing the land, or would you expect something different from this treaty?
Thats an area to be negotiated in detail. I don’t have all the answers, but its not an unsolvable problem.
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### Author:  [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/47 "2016-01-28T05:23:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> This is complete nonsense, since they have in fact told us quite clearly that a treaty is exactly what they want. See my Guardian article above.
I also read in the media the whitefella want a republic, how did that go at the last referendum ?
As for the land issue it’s already settled, there was ambit claim on every bit of crown load in Australia, they have as much land as they likely to get.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/48 "2016-01-28T06:02:06Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Thats an area to be negotiated in detail. I don’t have all the answers, but its not an unsolvable problem.
I fear it just might be.
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/49 "2016-01-28T06:44:49Z")
> [@bluezooky](#):
>
> As for the land issue it’s already settled, there was ambit claim on every bit of crown load in Australia, they have as much land as they likely to get.
And you think this is a fair and just outcome for them?
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/50 "2016-01-28T12:51:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> This is the model they want and its not my (me being a white Australian) choice to make.
Actually, it is your choice to make. The whole point of a treat is that it is an agreement between two parties, voluntarily entered into by both.
That means both parties have a choice: to enter treaty or not.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/51 "2016-01-28T16:15:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> The problem you’re ignoring is that there will almost certainly be non-aboriginals living on whatever land a treaty grants them, unless you’re planning on putting their land in the desert. So you have to address that in some way. Is it going to be tough shit for them, as fair payback for their ancestors stealing the land, or would you expect something different from this treaty?
I don’t think this is that great a problem. We’re not talking about Zimbabwe or Jerusalem or something.
Non-Aboriginals who own land in Aboriginal land grants or reservations or whatever you call them get to retain their land if they want and are now subject to the jurisdiction of tribal law, and some sort of constitutional protections.
People who don’t want to live in Aboriginal territory get compensated by the government at the market rate for their holdings and go somewhere else.
I am not sure if any of this is really necessary, just that if it’s what people want the problems are not insoluble.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/52 "2016-01-28T16:35:07Z")
Not impossible but I could see that being a difficult negotiation. I also have trouble believing anyone is going to get elected with a promise of such a land handover. But maybe I’m wrong. It would be an interesting story to follow if it does happen.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/53 "2016-01-28T17:21:02Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> It’s not different laws depending on the race, its the ability for them to set their own laws inside their sovereign first nations. There is a big big difference.
Sovereign means self ruling and thus exempt from the laws of Australia. What are the current Australian laws that need to be changed and why not change them democratically instead of carving up the country and giving it away?
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/54 "2016-01-28T17:27:41Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> It’s not different laws depending on the race, its the ability for them to set their own laws inside their sovereign first nations. There is a big big difference.
There would have to have a strong racial component though. If they don’t at least restrict which race gets to live on Aboriginal land and/or who gets to vote and run in elections then it would be far too easy for white people to eventually outnumber Aboriginals. eta: Not as some plot, merely normal movement of people for jobs or whatever.
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### Author:  [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/55 "2016-01-29T00:57:17Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Because first and foremost its what the majority of them want. If we negotiate with them as equal sovereign nations then what the majority of White Australians want doesn’t matter. Don’t you think its a little unreasonable to commit genocide for 100 years plus then turn around and say “well we out number you now, and sorry about that whole genocide bit, but democratically, you’re outvoted?”
Northern Piper weighed in a bit. Regardless of what one side in a negotiation wants the other side has to agree or there’s no agreement. In this case this means what the majority of white Australians wants really does matter just as much as what Aboriginal groups want. Without that white support there will never be a treaty. It’s as simple as that.
Limiting possible options in negotiation is a method. It can increase the odds that no agreement is reached. What middle ground can both Aboriginals and white Australians both agree to? Maybe it’s a treaty. Maybe it’s not.
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### Author:  [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australia-is-the-only-former-uk-colony-without-an-indigenous-treaty/744245/56 "2016-01-30T11:43:50Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> And its a national disgrace. Don’t celebrate Australia day, first make it right. Sign a treaty then scrap Australia day and replace it with Treaty day. A national holiday we could all celebrate: blackfella and whitefella.
>
> [Treaty Now | thekooriwoman](https://thekooriwoman.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/treaty-now/)
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (And before any overly sensitive US people attack me, the term blackfella is considered neutral in Australia and freely used by both indigenous and white Australians).
O.M.G. You used the black word :eek:
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