# Australians: Where does the word 'Poms' come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934 "2005-11-07T18:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/1 "2005-11-07T18:29:49Z")
The term ‘Seppos’ for Americans was recently mentioned, and the explanation was that it comes from rhyming slang ‘Yanks’= ‘Septic Tanks’. So that got me wondering where ‘Poms’ comes from. First, let’s make sure I understand the meaning of the word…it’s a mildly pejorative name for the English, right? But where does it come from? Is it also from rhyming slang, and if so, from what? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/2 "2005-11-07T18:33:24Z")
The OED says it comes from “pommy” – an Australian word for an Englishman. However, the origin of “pommy” is listed as obscure. Your guess is as good as anothers, though obviously, it can’t come from “Prisoner or Mother England” as some sources say. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/3 "2005-11-07T18:34:05Z")
Pomegranates. Also sometimes heard as “Pommies.” At one point the English ate a lot of pomegranates (I think to prevent scurvy, but maybe just because they liked them.) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/4 "2005-11-07T18:35:18Z")
The only etymology that makes sense is that it’s rhyming slang, short for “pomegranate”, which more-or-less rhymes with “immigrant”. Back when the word was first recorded (1912), most immigrants in Australia were from England. The fact that pomegranates are bright pink, and the skins of recent immigrants would turn bright pink in the Australian sun, would help with the association. The word’s too recent for it to have anything at all to do with convicts coming from England. My main source for this is _The Australian National Dictionary_, published in 1988. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/5 "2005-11-07T18:55:01Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > My main source for this is _The Australian National Dictionary_, published in 1988. Go librarian! If my IT job ever flies off to Bangalore, perhaps I should consider going back into the field. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/6 "2005-11-07T19:17:22Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The OED says it comes from “pommy” – an Australian word for an Englishman. However, the origin of “pommy” is listed as obscure. > > Your guess is as good as anothers, though obviously, it can’t come from “Prisoner or Mother England” as some sources say. Just to say that I have been called a pommy bastard on more than one occasion -I had the “pleasure” of working with a few Australians some years ago. I’m Welsh so I think it’s slang for Brits in general (some of my Scottish colleagues came in for the same treatment) rather than just the English. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/7 "2005-11-07T20:03:35Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > First, let’s make sure I understand the meaning of the word…it’s a mildly pejorative name for the English, right? Well, whether it’s pejorative or not really depends on individual usage and the way it’s said. It can be used in a rather endearing fashion (“those poms are OK”); merely descriptively (“he’s bringing a few poms to the party”); or rather disparagingly (“typical whingeing pommy bastards”). > [@Vetch](#): > > I’m Welsh so I think it’s slang for Brits in general (some of my Scottish colleagues came in for the same treatment) rather than just the English. In my experience, it’s a term reserved specifically for the English. I would certainly never apply it to a Scot, and neither would most people i know. Problem is, of course, that plenty of Australians have trouble distinguishing between an English accent, a Welsh acccent, and a Scottish accent. This isn’t helped by the fact that each of those places has many accents of its own. It’s also made more difficult by the fact that even people who are familiar with British regional accents can’t always tell which side of the border someone is from. For example, when i was living in England i knew people from western Shropshire and Herefordshire who sounded just like the Welsh folk a few miles down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Corii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Corii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corii)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/8 "2005-11-07T21:28:59Z")
Here’s the Word Detective’s take on it: [http://www.word-detective.com/back-m.html#pom](http://www.word-detective.com/back-m.html#pom) To concur with Giles’ post, I’ve also read in The Big Book of Being Bad (chock full of interesting insults) that pommy is short for pomegranate, which rhymes with immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/9 "2005-11-07T22:00:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, whether it’s pejorative or not really depends on individual usage and the way it’s said. > > It can be used in a rather endearing fashion (“those poms are OK”); merely descriptively (“he’s bringing a few poms to the party”); or rather disparagingly (“typical whingeing pommy bastards”).In my experience, it’s a term reserved specifically for the English. I would certainly never apply it to a Scot, and neither would most people i know. > > Problem is, of course, that plenty of Australians have trouble distinguishing between an English accent, a Welsh acccent, and a Scottish accent. This isn’t helped by the fact that each of those places has many accents of its own. It’s also made more difficult by the fact that even people who are familiar with British regional accents can’t always tell which side of the border someone is from. For example, when i was living in England i knew people from western Shropshire and Herefordshire who sounded just like the Welsh folk a few miles down the road. There was no way that an Australian could have mistaken my two Scotttish friends as English! They were barely understandable (both Glaswegians) until you got to know their manner of speaking. My accent though wasn’t as noticeable, but the Aussies knew I was Welsh because I came in for some stick on the rugby. Anyway here is another definition of the origin and meaning of the word. > **[Definition of pommy | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pommy)** > > Definition of pommy from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/10 "2005-11-07T22:58:19Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > The only etymology that makes sense is that it’s rhyming slang, short for “pomegranate”, which more-or-less rhymes with “immigrant”. > [@](#): > > My main source for this is _The Australian National Dictionary_, published in 1988. The Macquarie Dictionary also supports the rhyming slang etymology. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/11 "2005-11-08T02:40:45Z")
> [@Corii](#): > > pommy is short for pomegranate, which rhymes with immigrant. There are more steps than that: immigrant -\> Jimmy Grant -\> pomegranate -\> pommy -\> pom. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/12 "2005-11-08T03:17:36Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > There are more steps than that: immigrant -\> Jimmy Grant -\> pomegranate -\> pommy -\> pom. \ Even James Joyce in _Finnegans Wake_ didn’t put words through double and triple backflips like that. I’m in awe. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/13 "2005-11-08T04:58:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, whether it’s pejorative or not really depends on individual usage and the way it’s said. > > It can be used in a rather endearing fashion (“those poms are OK”); merely descriptively (“he’s bringing a few poms to the party”); or rather disparagingly (“typical whingeing pommy bastards”).In my experience, it’s a term reserved specifically for the English. I would certainly never apply it to a Scot, and neither would most people i know. How about it being a bad spelling for fruit. It works great in the above quote when substituted. It can be used in a rather endearing fashion (“those fruits are OK”); merely descriptively (“he’s bringing a few fruits to the party”); or rather disparagingly (“typical whingeing fruity bastards”).In my experience, it’s a term reserved specifically for the English. I would certainly never apply it to a Scot, and neither would most people i know ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/14 "2005-11-08T10:05:09Z")
> [@Vetch](#): > > Just to say that I have been called a pommy bastard on more than one occasion . Well depending on the context and the speaker, being called a pommy bastard could be an expression of friendship or liking, or dislike and disapprobation. In Australia someone can call you a “bloody dickhead” and be your best friend or your worst enemy; it’s all in the delivery. On the whole, the more an Australian likes you, the ruder they are to you. It does tend to confuse non-Australians though. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/15 "2005-11-08T12:35:58Z")
> [@blackhobyah](#): > > Well depending on the context and the speaker, being called a pommy bastard could be an expression of friendship or liking, or dislike and disapprobation. In Australia someone can call you a “bloody dickhead” and be your best friend or your worst enemy; it’s all in the delivery. > > On the whole, the more an Australian likes you, the ruder they are to you. It does tend to confuse non-Australians though. The same is true in NZ. Pom is not insult, neither is Yank. I have no idea why we call the English Poms and the Americans Yanks but we do. They are only meant as offensive terms when prefaced with “Fucken” (or in the case of Poms- “Fucken Whingeing Poms”). Bloody Pom (or Yank) is more often friendly. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/16 "2005-11-08T14:35:12Z")
> [@blackhobyah](#): > > Well depending on the context and the speaker, being called a pommy bastard could be an expression of friendship or liking, or dislike and disapprobation. In Australia someone can call you a “bloody dickhead” and be your best friend or your worst enemy; it’s all in the delivery. > > On the whole, the more an Australian likes you, the ruder they are to you. It does tend to confuse non-Australians though. Just to clear up my feelings about being called a pommie bastard, I took it as a compliment. We have a similiar culture where “insults” are traded more to those you like rather than those you don’t. It should go without saying, I gave as good as I got. As you say though it’s all in the delivery. ---
**Author:** ![coop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@coop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coop)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/17 "2005-11-08T15:30:47Z")
I did hear one definition once that said it was an anagram of “ **P** risoner **O** f **M** other **E** ngland” in reference to us all being convicts down here… ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/18 "2005-11-08T20:50:55Z")
I wasn’t going to mention the acronym theories, like Prisoner Of Mother England, or Property Of His Majesty, but you might want to look at [Snopes’ take on “Pommy”.](http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/pommy.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/19 "2005-11-09T02:43:13Z")
> [@coop](#): > > I did hear one definition once that said it was an anagram of “ **P** risoner **O** f **M** other **E** ngland” in reference to us all being convicts down here… My colleague from New Zealand concurs with the Prisoner of Mother England etymology. He find it to be extraordinarily insulting and uses it every chance he can when referring to employees of our English subsidiary. Although usually with the ‘whingeing’ part as well. The Economist made the pomegranate association recently and was corrected by an Aussie professor who claimed it came from “Prisoners of His/Her Majesty’s Service” which was shortened to POHMS on the cargo docs when prisoners were sent to Australia. I would include a link for the cite, but you would only be able to read it with a magazine subscription anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934/20 "2005-11-09T03:05:15Z")
A copy of the _Concise Oxford Dictionary_ I had many years ago had “Pom” defined simply as “An Australian” (which would support the Prisoner Of Her Majesty theory), but to me, it’s always meant an English person. Not British, and certainly not Australian, but specifically English. Also, after seeing this question come up on these boards before, and also elsewhere, I believe it’s time we admitted defeat and simply accepted that the origin is lost to time. I tend to subscribe to the P.O.H.M. theory, but honestly, the chance we will ever find out for sure is very slim. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australians-where-does-the-word-poms-come-from/329934.md?page=2)